To make nanny and DC travel economy?

[BooAvenue]

We are planning a trip to NY in the autumn and plan to take nanny, DD who will be 6 and DS who will be 16 months.

DH and I will be flying business, partially because I am a crap flyer despite flying frequently and partly because we have quite a lot of air miles that we want to make the most of.

The plan is to bring nanny on the 5 day trip so she can help out with the travelling and babysit for us on three of the nights. I've discussed it with her and she's very eager to come, and the plan is she will have 2 days and 2 evenings completely free to do as she pleases, plus TOIL of 6 days. We will of course pay for all hotels/flights/meals out and she's welcome to join in with us on her days off if she wishes. She also gets her own room whilst we have a 2 bed family room.

The difference between economy and club is about 2.5k per ticket, which whilst we are not poor is still a fair chunk of money.

So AIBU to fly business whilst she flies economy? And will DS need his own seat or will he need to go on one of our laps?

Ha ha at all these people saying children should stay out of business class. Plenty of people have to try to work in economy! Less and less companies will pay for premium travel these days. I usually travel business, as have my kids since birth, and I hardly ever see anyone working. Occasionally someone has their laptop out for the first hour or so, but mostly people do what they do in economy: eat, sleep and watch the movies. With the noise of the airplane your child would have to be pretty unusually loud to disturb the peace.

I think your plan is fine OP. Get the toddler a seat to make things easier for nanny. Also then if you feel guilty you and DH can always go back and sit with the kids for half an hour a couple of times in the flight. Don't take the toddler into business with you! Looking after a toddler on a flight sucks, whereas your 6 year old will be no work at all. You will end up resentful that you are paying nanny to watch the movies while you spend the flight working.

My response is very easy.

My DC's are not second rate citizens to me. If I fly business class, so do they. If I can't afford business class for us all then I'm in economy with them.

From a safety perspective, what happens if the plane hits turbulence? Young children can find an experience like that extremely scary. And don't think you'll be allowed to leave your seat to check whether the children are ok. You won't.

I cannot imagine a universe where my children aren't with me on a plane. It's a 7 hour flight FFS.
If you can afford business (which is sounds like you can), pay the money and have your DC's with you.

"Treating the kids like second class citizens" FFS kids don't need leg room.

Stick them in the hold then?

It's not about leg room.

It's about travelling as a family.

Hahaha! When I read the title of this I was cracking up thinking 'here we go'. That said, in general you're being very fair and if your nanny is happy, fine. That said, with The age of your youngest child, it's not going to be a pleasant flight for her, and my concern is that your older child will be wanting to go to you all the time and not understand why you aren't sitting together. I know mine would, and I'd quite like to share in their excitement too.

We are pretty isolated after moving for partners work, and can't afford a nanny. After over 12 months with my dd and only 5 hours ever spent away from her, I can only dream of a trip like this. It's all I can do to go tinkle by myself nowadays.

Having said that I'm now so attached I'd probably spend 5k just to sit in economy with her. Seriously.

But really, you should just do what's right for you op. If you can't afford it and the nanny is happy with economy and your dc are happy, then just do it. Enjoy the trip and time with your partner. Don't feel guilty.

Also you could treat your dc to a weekend family trip somewhere nice earlier in the year, just you guys without the nanny, to make up for it. I'm sure they'd love it and you'd enjoy your NYC trip without the guilt.

This is only my opinion. but I could never have a week's holiday on my own with DH and just give the kids a couple of weekends away. The highlights of my life with them have been the bucket and spade moments and hearing them talk about our family holidays before and after wards.

You're taking them to New York for five days and only spending two days and two evenings with them, and not even flying with them.
I'm sure you do adore them, but I find that a bit sad. One day you and DH will have all the time in the world to holiday without them, but they're little for such a tiny part of your life.

Just my opinion, I'm sure your kids are very loved, but I couldn't help thinking that.

I don't have a nanny and I can't imagine going on holiday without my children but even from my different perspective I can see you are not being unreasonable. Sounds fine to me. The flight will be very hard for the nanny but the whole situation seems like a brilliant deal for her so I'm sure she will be ok with it! Booking a seat for the toddler would be a big help though.

YANBU.
But get a seat for the 16mo.

Oh. And last I looked, if you pay a ticket anyone is allowed in business class/ club/ first.
If they weren't, the airlines would make the cabins 12+ ....they don't.

If you don't want to risk children in business then stump for a private jet

I'm a totally neurotic ott patent but I would be ok with this. Go for it OP, have a nice break.

I know people who, like the OP, largely holiday without the dc or go somewhere that they don't have to think about dcs activities but just park them at childcare. I think it's a real shame and the whole 'we need to focus on ourselves as a couple' is imo total bollocks. I've been married for nearly 20 years. Some of the rock we've built on is in the handful of weekend breaks we've taken alone. A much bigger chunk is the one family holiday a year. We don't (usually) go abroad. We holiday in this country and we've had such amazing times together. Our family holidays though are built on the pattern of the holidays our parents gave us. Nothing dramatically expensive but interesting times where the focus was on going away together. The OP has different memories and apparently no impetus to change this which is sad I think.
OP - it's not on to put the nanny in economy whilst you sit in business. It's not on to avoid responsibility for your kids on a long flight 'because you've paid for help'. Do it if you want. I'm sure your nanny will be terribly sweet about it. I'm also damn sure she will never do that with her own kids.

YABU -

1. I have travelled transatlantic with children of a similar age and they can be a handful, another adult has been to hand and it's still work. With the airport time before, boarding, flight time etc it's a long trip for kids. You should keep the little one with you. OR at the very least buy all 3 a seat so they have room, a row to themselves.
2. You will not be allowed to move between cabins - either way, even with kids involved. Or move the kids around or swap seats.The toddler will have to stay in their own cabin. I have experienced this a couple of times when family got split between cabins. Your nanny will not be allowed to come into business class.
3. Emergencies - been in a few. I would NEVER travel in a separate cabin from my young kids anyway, stuff does happen and I would not rely on other people to look after my young children in cases of turbulence, delays or unexpected events.

DeAtHnOtE you must hardly be away from your kids if they only ever travel with you, and would never be anywhere with anyone else where anything bad could, at least theoretically, happen. How on earth do you cope with school out nursery trips?

I do know what you mean, I found it difficult the first time DS went somewhere with my sister, 'what if there was a car accident and I'm not there '- but I'd find it impossible for our family to function if this dictated we had to go everywhere together.

It isn't called Business Class on BA or Virgin. It's Club Class or Upper Class. Not sure about the American Airlines but I've flown Club Class with children aged from 2 months & never had a problem.

The absolutely rock solid marriages I have known in the last 30 yrs have ALL been amongst couples who focus on each other as a priority

How did the children turn out?

Our nanny lives with us in London. DS is 18 months. She comes on all family holidays with us. On long haul flights she sits in economy while we sit in First or Business. For me DS is still too little for him to not be with me for the duration of the flight. I would worry all the time and listen for his cries. So my deal with her is that she has nothing to do with DS throughout the flight, but once we have arrived and unpacked, she takes over so I can have a proper first night, some drinks, and not worry about what time he wakes up etc (so his let lag is her problem). She chooses not to take days off on holidays as she would rather the extra cash for overtime.

However, when DS is older I am sure I will be happy to put him in economy. He has a half brother and sister and they sit in economy with nanny on long haul flights. They are 10 and 8 and think it is bloody marvellous to be away from us with their screens and tablets.

OP enjoy it and do whatever you feel comfortable with.

YABU. This just smacks of 'we are taking our children away but doing the bare minimum parenting we can'. Your children should come first. Always. I can't believe your crap excuse that you holiday alone because it's not fun for them! How about you put them fist and book a children's holiday! All our holidays and short breaks are for the children.

OP, I think it's (just about) ok, but only on the understanding that both DC get a seat. It would be near on impossible for the nanny to have both children and herself in two seats. The toddler is probably pretty active, and unlikely to sit still . How does the nanny eat her meal if she can't even put her table down? Or help your DD if her arms are full with the toddler? Or go to the toilet? It's totally impractical ( and god help the poor passenger in the third seat !)

That said, I just wouldn't fly in a different part of plane from my DC, I don't even particularly like it if I'm in a different row! I just know I'd want to be with them if there was an emergency.

Although I have holidayed without them, nothing wrong with that, IMO, as long as you also holiday with them at another time.

Having flown economy across the Atlantic both ways on my own with one small child and an under-two in my lap -- please do not make another human being go through this hell.

Buy DS a ticket and bring his car seat along, or get whatever other regulation seat the airline requires.

Economy is fine with children as long as you are not trying to eat your meal and keep a toddler from getting it all over you and himself and his sister and the passengers in front. DS needs his own seat.

Plus, you and DH need to be prepared to take over from the nanny when she needs the loo too, and a break. Not fair to ask her to manage this on the plane on her own.

I'd probably share Looking after DS between the three of us as I'd feel mean making her have a baby on her lap for 7 hours. It would be more than mean, it would be taking advantage in the most horrible way, and there should be no 'probably' about sharing the responsibility.

Wrt the big picture here -- I agree with PandasRock

('Business class' is just a name for seats sold at a higher price.)

YANBU to expect Nanny to travel economy - most of us mere mortals have to and it sounds a wonderful opportunity for her.

In theory I suppose if she is being paid to look after the children on the flight, and she agrees, then again, thats not ureasonable either. Although I doubt she realises quite how hard it will be with 2 DCs.

BUT I am struggling with why you and DH wouldnt want to spend time with your children and look after them yourselves when you are able to. I certainly couldnt sit a few rows infront of my DCs and pretend like they didnt exist.

I can't imagine this is ever going to be an issue for me, but in your shoes I would

1. have the DC with me, for all the turbulence (and hopefully no worse) reasons given above; and
2. talk to the nanny about her seat. I don't like the us and them, it would very much depend on the relationship with the nanny. I don't suppose she can afford to pay the difference between economy and business (on what you pay her!!), but I guess she's getting a good deal. So maybe no, yanbu to pay for her economy seat.

Get the little one a seat. Speak to the nanny and explain that you realise there may be added stress involved in a longish flight with two children. Offer to pay her a very large bonus per flight. Money talks. Could be her spending money for NYC. Maybe she could pay for a couple of nice excursions on the holiday or some shopping.

I'm a fairly nervous flyer so I'd feel safer having my child with me in case he was frightened. That's your choice though and I wouldn't judge. Also, how would your 6 year old deal with knowing you are elsewhere on the plane? You'll know better than anyone if she will be upset and wanting to sit with you, or happy to sit with the nanny.

Some of these responses are hilariously self-righteous ('Your children are equals, so it's really, really important they travel business!' and 'Don't you ever have a real family holiday?') and alarmist (What if some appalling air disaster takes place and your nanny hurls herself out the emergency exit solo????')

This is a pretty standard arrangement, and no cause for outrage if the OP buys both children a seat, so the nanny hasn't a hefty toddler on her lap across the Atlantic, and the nanny is happy with the TOIL, time off in NY etc. In my experience, it would be extremely unusual for a nanny to fly anything other than economy. When I was an au pair who knew a lot of other au pairs, we all flew cattle class with the children, while the parents were up front.

Yanbu at all about the nanny (I used to be a nanny). It's a good deal for her but you would need to buy an extra seat in economy or take the toddler with you. You can't leave her with a toddler on her lap in economy.

I can't imagine flying in a separate cabin to my kid or going on holiday without him
People are different tho, so if it works for you....

Of course kids of any age can go in business class. If other passengers don't like it that's their problem. I don't like people who smell or talk too loud or have annoying a laugh or a million other things that you just have to put up with if you are on public transport.