To make nanny and DC travel economy?

[BooAvenue]

We are planning a trip to NY in the autumn and plan to take nanny, DD who will be 6 and DS who will be 16 months.

DH and I will be flying business, partially because I am a crap flyer despite flying frequently and partly because we have quite a lot of air miles that we want to make the most of.

The plan is to bring nanny on the 5 day trip so she can help out with the travelling and babysit for us on three of the nights. I've discussed it with her and she's very eager to come, and the plan is she will have 2 days and 2 evenings completely free to do as she pleases, plus TOIL of 6 days. We will of course pay for all hotels/flights/meals out and she's welcome to join in with us on her days off if she wishes. She also gets her own room whilst we have a 2 bed family room.

The difference between economy and club is about 2.5k per ticket, which whilst we are not poor is still a fair chunk of money.

So AIBU to fly business whilst she flies economy? And will DS need his own seat or will he need to go on one of our laps?

[Want2bSupermum]

Points don't cost the airline as much as giving you cash. My kids are quieter in business but regardless of where you are sitting on a plane, if a child has ear problems they are going to scream. Trust me when I say its worse for them, the parent(s) than it is for others. I had eight hours of it once and it was just exhausting. When another passenger complained I looked at them and just said 'What do you want me to do about it?!?' At 30,000ft there is NOTHING that can be done bar landing. They will only land if it is life threatening. Ears hurting isn't life threatening.

[AutumnLeavesArePretty]

What a wharped view the children grow up with. You believe they won't enjoy holidays so leave them out and when they do get to go they aren't worth paying extra for to sit with mum or dad.

[Salene]

Nothing wrong with flying her economy but I think your children should be with you.

[MidniteScribbler]

I'm starting to suspect that OldFarticus and her husband were given FF points just to make them shut up.

[21Oreos]

I only got to page 9, but for what it's worth - YANBU but i would get an extra seat for baby.
We didn't take our nanny on holiday with us (only one DC) but definitely will take them on the next one when we have two children.

[mathanxiety]

They probably just wanted to get you off their phone or away from their counter, OF. You did the equivalent of spitting out your dummies after all.

Plus as someone else mentioned, you are frequent flyers and they wanted to keep you sweet. They may well have had first class seats going a begging and someone else willing to pay for an expensive last minute upgrade to business on the occasion you flew.

the costs and "treat" factor makes it even more important imo. It's certainly what DH and I do
Again, nobody owes anyone any more consideration in business class than they do anywhere else, and if things go wrong and your personal expectations (which are not explicitly guaranteed by the airline) go unfulfilled - baby cries, your fellow passengers snore like mother bears, your fellow passengers have terrible flatulence or type loudly all night - you should expect to suck it up.

It may well be a treat for you, and you seem very conscious of the money involved, but to others flying it may not be the same. The cost might be a drop in the ocean to some.

There is no way I would refuse to buy business class tickets for myself and any babies or small children I had with me if I could afford it. My money is as good as anyone else's, and when my children were small I never apologised for travelling with them. They are not second class citizens. Consideration goes both ways.

[MissBattleaxe]

Shrug. It's quite possible to love one's children without revolving every minute of one's life around them. Sometimes kids are just one facet of a well-rounded life and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact children in such families tend to turn out better than those who are obsessed over 24/7

There's a vast, vast spectrum in between.

[SoupDragon]

I think that the OP would have been a bit less "judged" (for the want of a better word) if she had been of a different demographic. If she had said "I'm a single parent of a toddler and a six year old - WIBU to pay a babysitter to take them to the cinema while I go to the bingo next door for a few hours for a well-earned treat?" nobody would accuse of remiss parenting.

Probably not. Mostly because it isn't the same thing at all. Don't look for snobbery where there isn't any. You are assuming that everyone is of a different demographic to the OP.

[Marynary]

I think that the OP would have been a bit less "judged" (for the want of a better word) if she had been of a different demographic. If she had said "I'm a single parent of a toddler and a six year old - WIBU to pay a babysitter to take them to the cinema while I go to the bingo next door for a few hours for a well-earned treat?" nobody would accuse of remiss parenting. Certainly, nobody would accuse the OP of spoiling their cinematic experience by abandoning unsupervised children and going to enjoy herself. It's reverse snobbery and IMO it's no better than the non-reverse type.

Actually, I think that OP would have been very "judged" if she had got a babysitter to take a baby/toddler to the cinema (unless it was a parent/baby screenings) while she watched the same film in a more upmarket expensive cinema next door. People certainly would accuse OP of spoiling their cinema experience! It isn't "reverse snobbery" to think that people should be as considerate towards those with a lot of money as those with less.

[LeaLeander]

Shrug. It's quite possible to love one's children without revolving every minute of one's life around them. Sometimes kids are just one facet of a well-rounded life and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact children in such families tend to turn out better than those who are obsessed over 24/7.

[MissBattleaxe]

No, oldfarticus ( great name!).

The bits that bugs me is that the OP feels that holidays alone with her DH are more "beneficial to the family as a whole" and they just take the kids on weekends away.

Then after three months away from his children, the OP's DH and the OP ( who to be fair has not been away for three months) take the kids on an adult oriented holiday with a Nanny and won't even sit with the kids for the journey, despite it being the first time either of the kids have flown ( or can remember flying). It's not about class, I just personally, couldn't do that.

It seems so detached.

[OldFarticus]

Really surprised by how much ire this thread has provoked. Math the premium may not explicitly cover "quieter" but the airlines responded to DH's complaint about noise and disturbance by giving us several thousand pounds worth of airmiles each. So they obviously thought we had a point. It was the only time we had to complain having flown business (with kids present!) several times a year for more than a decade.

I have repeatedly said that I have no issue at all with anyone - young or older - in business class - provided that they are considerate and respectful of others. Frankly it's what I would hope for in any environment, but the costs and "treat" factor makes it even more important imo. It's certainly what DH and I do. It really wouldn't be controversial in any other context.

I think that the OP would have been a bit less "judged" (for the want of a better word) if she had been of a different demographic. If she had said "I'm a single parent of a toddler and a six year old - WIBU to pay a babysitter to take them to the cinema while I go to the bingo next door for a few hours for a well-earned treat?" nobody would accuse of remiss parenting. Certainly, nobody would accuse the OP of spoiling their cinematic experience by abandoning unsupervised children and going to enjoy herself. It's reverse snobbery and IMO it's no better than the non-reverse type.

And I'm out - OP if you are still readuing, have a lovely time in NY.

[mathanxiety]

4. • lovely idea; if only you could predict when the toddler was going to poo and when the 6 yo needed to go.

[TheBlessedCheesemaker]

We travel long haul all the time with the kids, used to take nanny sometimes, and still take the PA quite often (she loves kids and they treat her like favourite older sister), so this is familiar territory.

What you do is:-

1. three seats economy,
   
2. nanny and kids all economy on daytime flight over
   
3. Get on plane after the nanny and the kids so they dont see you
   
4. after your meal (always served first if you are in club) have you or husband go and sit with nanny in economy with baby on lap so that she can then eat her meal in peace with someone looking after baby. If flying first you can choose what time you eat, so do your meal after one of you has helped nanny during her meal. Make sure you do loo run/nappy change with kids etc at same time, to reduce number of times nanny has to do it. Then you can return to club and nanny can look after kids.
   
5. on return flight , book the daytime flight rather than the overnight because otherwise nanny will have no sleep at all. FWIW I find the daytime flight from NYC might look like a waste of a whole day but is worth its weight in gold for reducing jetlag (i always used to insist on it when i flew business).
   
6. if you can't book the daytime flight, then on return flight have the first hour to yourself for meal and chill-out, then have nanny bring your baby up to club, and have baby lie with you to sleep for rest of flight. Both of you will be fine in a club bed and will be able to snooze ok, but if nanny has both kids she might not get a wink of sleep and it will be hell for her.
   
7. once you have baby with you to hunker down in the club bed then nanny will be left with three seats for her and DD to spread out on - she'll find it much comfier and everyone will be happy.
   
   Oh, and no 8) good luck with getting away with it more than once. Your DD will be savvy to insist on club next time.
   
   By the way, no probs with any of your posts, except that it sounds like you dont do any 'bucket and spades' holidays with your kids? That sounds really sad. I hate, hate, hate that kind of thing for myself, but would never have denied my kids those holidays. There's a world of difference between a 'doing stuff' holiday (centerparcs, eurodisney) and a 'doing nothing' holiday at the beach. Give the kids both.

[mathanxiety]

"In fact, industry officials say, in-flight sexual misconduct is but an alarming element in a recent sharp rise in what the airline industry calls "air rage" passengers who physically or verbally abuse other passengers or crew members, or otherwise act out. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration says the number of incidents involving passengers interfering with flight crews more than tripled to 296 last year from 89 cases in 1991. United had 527 disruptive-passenger incidents in 1997 more than double the 241 cases recorded in 1995. United, like most airlines, declines to say how many of these incidents are of a sexual nature. But the London-based International Transport Workers' Federation, an amalgamation of 480 of the world's flight-attendant unions, is so concerned about the issue of sexually aggressive passengers that it launched an ad campaign last year. The goal largely is to prevent sexual advances against crew members."
('A New Problem for the Airlines: Sexual Misconduct at 37,000 Feet' www.wsj.com/articles/SB897364901819356000)

Children are not the problem, people.

[mathanxiety]

The premium charged for BC does not cover 'quieter'. Some families choose it because seats are more comfortable, service is better, there are more crew available, there is more room to stretch your legs.

[mathanxiety]

Math I am not sure whether you and others on this thread are being deliberately obtuse or just misunderstanding what I am repeatedly saying. I have no problem with children in Business class. I fly frequently enough to have seen hundreds of them, in fact. I would expect those children (and their parents, and any adults in the vicinity) to behave respectfully and have consideration for others, which includes parents of noisy children being mindful that other passengers might not want to hear little Tabitha shrieking for the whole flight.

We all try our best, OldFarticus. But your expectation that people should be especially respectful of you because you have forked over the cost of a business class ticket is silly. Anyone who can afford to can buy BC tickets and you are not owed any more consideration than you would be if you flew economy by parents with small children choosing to fly business class. It is not a reserved area for quiet travel. There are a few airlines that offer such areas for a premium, and they also offer family friendly areas, also for a premium.

The parents of little Tabitha probably don't want to hear her shrieking either, but apart from suffocating her with a pillow what do you suggest they do, if she is having a bad day?

No doubt you were impeccably behaved as a young traveller.

[spiralstaircase]

I personally wouldn't want to be separated from my children for a whole flight and I know they would really miss us and want to look for us. I'm also a nervous flyer but don't see that as a reason to be in business class. I find it really strange that you usually leave your children behind when you go on holiday. Surely when you have small children you choose holidays that are suitable for children and perhaps have the occasional weekend away as a couple (if you can afford to, etc) rather than the other way around?

Still, if you don't mind being separated from your children for the flight and think the nanny can cope and she is happy, I don't think it is unreasonable just not something I would choose to do.

[Luckygirlcharlie]

YANBU. This is standard. Sounds like a nice trip for the nanny too. Agree with getting 16mth old own seat and helping out a bit there during the flight to give her breaks.

[roundaboutthetown]

I know my children wouldn't. If I thought they might, it would be too stressful to take them into club class in the first place. Just as I wouldn't want to go in there with an adult who is scared of flying and overcomes this by getting very drunk and aggressive...

If the law were to protect a majority from the minority, then children would be more appropriately banned from economy class, where the majority sit. Also, since a minority of adults inflict their bad behaviour on others, on your logic all humans should be banned from business class. It's the behaviour that is the problem, not the age of the person committing the sin of being obnoxious. Personally, the most obnoxious people I have met on flights are adults who get drunk and aggressive, or who snore incredibly loudly for hours, or who keep calling the cabin crew over to complain about something, or who smell of stale sweat, or who lean across you to shout to friends they aren't sitting next to.

[PollyPerky]

Round The majority of rules and laws exist to protect the majority against the behaviour of a minority. If everyone was honest, considerate etc we'd have no need for laws.

But people aren't. So for every 100 parents here who say their little darlings sleep throughout a long haul BC or 1st class flight, there will be 1 family who makes it hell for people who have paid a premium for peace and quiet.

I am sure children will never be banned from certain classes of travel but I still think the idea that parents shouldn't inflict their noisy children on other flyers. At least entertain the idea your child might!

[Kreacherelf]

The first class lounge usually has a few 'spirited' children

Yet, they won't let me take my gentle cat in there?!?

[petitfromage]

We flew upper class (virgin business effectively) with our kids, along with sisters and their kids....in total 6 kids age 6 months - 7 yrs. No hassle at all, kids were great and in flight kept them quiet. Sharing a flat bed with an 18 month old on the way home was 'interesting' (giving her a biscuit with her nighttime milk was a big mistake - crumbs everywhere).

We are going to US at Easter and debating taking the nanny. If it wasn't for the fact it's west coast and nanny has never travelled that far I'd definitely do it as we are both working for a few days when we get there before holiday officially starts so I'll need to recruit a local nanny. I think I'd be fine with putting them in economy with the nanny if she was totally comfortable with it. 6 yr old won't even notice they are on a plane once the media system starts if they are anything like my DS. I've flown on my own with DS & DD and found it fine. Kids fly a lot so know the routine. YANBU - do whatever feels comfortable for you. God I'd love a business flight without the kids. Must do some weekend away planning right now.....

[TheWomanInTheWall]

I've flown my kids in First. They were absolutely fine.

Lowering the tone...? Err, all social classes have kids; our own dear queen is up to five great grandchildren now, IIRC...