To make nanny and DC travel economy?

[BooAvenue]

We are planning a trip to NY in the autumn and plan to take nanny, DD who will be 6 and DS who will be 16 months.

DH and I will be flying business, partially because I am a crap flyer despite flying frequently and partly because we have quite a lot of air miles that we want to make the most of.

The plan is to bring nanny on the 5 day trip so she can help out with the travelling and babysit for us on three of the nights. I've discussed it with her and she's very eager to come, and the plan is she will have 2 days and 2 evenings completely free to do as she pleases, plus TOIL of 6 days. We will of course pay for all hotels/flights/meals out and she's welcome to join in with us on her days off if she wishes. She also gets her own room whilst we have a 2 bed family room.

The difference between economy and club is about 2.5k per ticket, which whilst we are not poor is still a fair chunk of money.

So AIBU to fly business whilst she flies economy? And will DS need his own seat or will he need to go on one of our laps?

BA still offer unaccompanied minor, I think, OF.

I agree that it would be better to try the children on a short flight first, to Dublin or wherever.

Mary I agree - people should supervise their children and do their utmost to manage their behaviour everywhere - but the degree of annoyance is relative to the cost.

I disagree. The cost of the flight shouldn't come into it. Parents should do their utmost to supervise their children and get them to behave well on flights full stop. Whether or not they are in first class or economy is irrelevant. The fact that those passengers are in economy is irrelevant. They are not second class citizens who deserve less respect and consideration from other passengers.
It is not the same as a lone parent travelling at all as that parent is not worsening the travel experience of other passengers so that they can travel in comfort away from their children.

jonquil the thing with air miles is you still have to pay the taxes and airline charges,, which would be around £500 for a transatlantic flight. so they wouldn't get away with not paying cash at all, it would just be cheaper as partly air miles. The reason I mentioned la compagnie is that they have set themselves up as an all business service for people that would usually fly economy, with a slightly lesser product than the big airlines, but a price tag that is more like premium economy. So op could take all of them for potentially the same price.

badlad if you have frequent flyer status with the airline or are traveling in the right classes one of the perks is the ability to guest someone into the lounge. If you have status you can use the lounge plus a first regardless of class flown.
There are also third party lounges which are open to the public for a fee or to cardholders such as priority pass. But airline specific ones tend to be for businesses/first and elite status frequent fliers only.

Plus a guest sorry

Yes, in an ideal world everyone would be considerate of others. We don't live in an ideal world, unfortunately. The airlines can charge a premium for Business class because it is spacious, more comfortable, quieter, etc - if they can't deliver on those expectations to the extent that it has a detrimental effect on customers, then I would expect to be compensated (and I have been). As I said, the airline seemed to accept and agree with DH's complaint - we were given enough free air miles to fly home from the USA in First. (Now THAT was amazing...) Rightly or wrongly, I don't think they would have been quite so accomodating in economy, but I have never tried complaining in that scenario. I would probably just stick my ear plugs in and suck it up.

And if you were travelling in the same plane as the DC's nanny, you would have no idea whether or not the parents were up front or not, so there is really no point wasting any brain power on whether they are "worsening your travel experience"....it's Economy FGS, it's stinky and cramped and it sucks massively for everybody!

And bedraggled is correct - both DH and I are allowed to take 1 guest each into the lounge as we have FF status. If it wasn't free, we probably wouldn't bother but I can see that being a bonus for the OP in her scenario. The lounges themselves are a mixed bag - those in the USA tend to be sparse and (most crushingly) a few in the Middle East are dry.

Thanks for the info

Yes, in an ideal world everyone would be considerate of others. We don't live in an ideal world, unfortunately. The airlines can charge a premium for Business class because it is spacious, more comfortable, quieter, etc - if they can't deliver on those expectations to the extent that it has a detrimental effect on customers, then I would expect to be compensated (and I have been).

Airlines charge a premium for business class because it is more spacious, comfortable with better food etc. There is no expectation that you get a quieter better behaved passengers. I expect that the decision to compensate you was based on the fact that they don't want to lose your business if you are a frequent flyer rather than the fact that on that occasion you were travelling business class.

OldFarticus Unaccompanied Minors are still very much a thing - I think generally from about 5 years of age.

I don't agree Mary - they agreed to compensate us because DH complained that he had to go directly to give a presentation at a medical conference and had not had a wink of sleep. His comment was that a cabin in which people might reasonably be expected to work (it is called "business class" for a reason) should not be like a kindergarten. The purser agreed 100%, apologised for the troublesome passengers but I think it was only when he checked the manifest that he realised we were frequent flyers with the airline. We were far from the only people complaining, but admittedly the situation was an extreme one. (As in 3 children under 5, a massive marital domestic at the terminal, a mum on strike and pretending to be asleep for the whole 11 hour flight and a dad who seemingly had no idea how to parent and left all 3 kids to go feral...)

Katharina - thanks, didn't know that. Let's hope they have got rid of the high vis vests with "unaccompanied minor" on the back that we had to wear. Seems a tad risky, with hindsight....

I agree completely that noisy children ought not to be allowed in business class- in fact I'm surprised there isn't some age limit like only over 11 or something.

DH and DS fly BC. The use the time to sleep - either before a meeting or on the way home when they may still be expected to turn up for work on landing. The whole point on long flights is to have a flat bed and get some shut eye or be able to work.

IMO parents ought to be considerate and not take toddlers onto BC but maybe airlines ought to introduce age restrictions?

OldFarticus The purser didn't tell you that you should expect better behaved passengers just because you are in business class. Your DH is the one that thinks that (and you). I have been compensated in a similar situation even though I was travelling economy because I was a frequent flyer and sometimes did fly business or first class.
Regardless, even if you are correct that passengers in economy are more likely to have to put up with other inconsiderate passengers, it doesn't mean it is okay to further worsen their experience by putting your children in economy class with only one adult to supervise while you yourself travel in comfort away from them.

I was on a flight where the Mum, Nanny and baby flew first class and her children (aged about 8 and 12) flew in economy. She asked my husband to look after them as he was sitting next to them! A lot of men piped up and said they'd happily swap seats with her if she was worried about her children but she gave them the look and flounced back to first class.

You're not her, are you?

And you think a six year old would stay up all night shouting and not want to sleep, PollyPerky?! It's somewhat extreme to ban all children under 11 from Club Class/Business Class, just because some children are obnoxious. You might as well ban adults, too, given the offensive behaviour I have seen some of them display on flights, in all cabins! At least a 6-year old girl is highly unlikely to get drunk, swear and grope the cabin crew... It's in economy class that children are more likely to be a pain, because, funnily enough, it's a bit cramped and uncomfortable!

Mary no the purser did not say that, but where did I suggest he did? You seem to be arguing with yourself! The point I made (which is pretty indefensible) was that airlines who charge premium rates for a "business" cabin should expect to be challenged if that cabin is unsuitable for its intended and advertised use. In DH's case, he was giving a presentation first thing in the morning (US time) and we flew business so that we could get some sleep. Why else would we pay thousands of pounds for a flat bed?

If you have complained in a similar situation, then why judge me for doing so? You did it in economy - good for you. As I said, I never bother to complain in Economy because for me it is the seventh circle of hell anyway, irrespective of the airline or the behaviour of fellow passengers. If I am suffering in the back anyway, I couldn't give a shiny shit if the OP dumped an entire squadron of boisterous kids in the cabin and fucked off for a shag with the captain.

OldFarticus I complained in the situation because I don't think that anyone should have to put up with badly behaved passengers whether or not they are travelling in economy or business. I don't normally find economy the "seventh circle of hell" particularly outside school holiday time and I don't think it should be.
Anyway, I'm not judging you for complaining. I am "judging" you for thinking it is okay for people to dump their children in economy while they travel in business if that means that their children are less well supervised and more likely to disturb other passengers.

And you think a six year old would stay up all night shouting and not want to sleep, PollyPerky?!

Not sure how you can make a child of that age sleep to order! And it's not necessarily always 'night' due to time differences and jet lag/body clock!
If you can guarantee that a young child will sleep to order in strange surroundings and never disturb anyone then maybe you ought to apply for the role of Super Nanny! You'd make a bloody fortune.

At the end of the day Mary it's public transport and you could just as easily end up with a school group (and I have, and that really was the seventh circle of hell) with only a few (exhausted) adults. Would you "judge" them too for Failing to Enahnace your Experience of Flying Cattle Class? The airlines exist to make money and if the OP wants to spiff her miles and buy an extra seat for her toddler, then she will be accomodated. If passengers are disturbed, then they are perfectly entitled to complain (as both you and I DH have). For me, Economy is something to be endured on the grounds of cheapness and I wouldn't complain about other passengers any more than I would complain about a 99p McDonald's burger being a bit shit.

Unless and until the airlines prevent people from doing what the OP suggested (and there is absolutely no logical reason why they should!) then it's really nobody else's business.

At the end of the day Mary it's public transport and you could just as easily end up with a school group (and I have, and that really was the seventh circle of hell) with only a few (exhausted) adults. Would you "judge" them too for Failing to Enahnace your Experience of Flying Cattle Class?

I wouldn't "judge" the supervising adults if they were making the effort to supervise the children and keep them well behaved. I would "judge" them if they pranced off to business or first class so they could have a nice flight while leaving their children unsupervised to disturb passengers in economy.

Unless and until the airlines prevent people from doing what the OP suggested (and there is absolutely no logical reason why they should!) then it's really nobody else's business.

I'm not criticising the airline. As you say they can't stop people doing what OP suggested. I am criticising OP and others with her attitude such as you.

This reminds me of when my dad used to make a full English breakfast just for himself and we used to hang around his legs begging for scraps. But in many ways I wish I could be a little more like him.

I can't really say if YABU as its like wondering if the queen is being unreasonable for not walking her own corgis. But thank you for this thread. Its like watching downton.

Mary - as I said at the very beginning of the thread, the OP's attitude (and mine) is really none of anyone's business unless and until the airline decides that the potential for inconvenience to the other passengers outweighs the advantage to the airline in selling tickets. Which will be never. However, if enough people did think like you then eventually airlines will deprive people like the OP from choosing to sit away from her children. Like everything in life, you pays your money and takes your choice!

olrfarticus If you're are inconsiderate and it effects other people then you can't really argue that it is none of their business. What OP is suggesting is certainly inconsiderate towards other passengers and arguably also the nanny.
What airlines decide do or don't do in this situation is irrelevant to the question of whether it is right (morally) or reasonable to so what the OP is suggesting. Personally I try to treat people as I would like to be treated whether or not they have money.

I think you are projecting wildly here to be honest Mary. I argued in favour of being considerate earlier on the thread, but I don't think that one adult flying with two children is really "up there" in terms of inconsiderate behaviour I have seen on public transpport (particualrly as nobody other than the OP and her DH would even know the true situation, i.e. parents in another cabin).

Nobody has suggested that anyone should be treated differently depending on whether or not they have money. I simply think that spending (say) 5k on a flight conveys an expectation of a slighter more premium experience than paying a tenth of that. In the same way that dining at (say) The Fat Duck conveys a higher expectation than McDonalds... It doesn't mean that one is better, just that the expectations are different - and it is perfectly reasonable that they should be so.

I think you should all fly the same class. I can understand the attraction of flying business class but I think it will be easier to look after the kids between all 3 adults. Flying is stressful with little kids, you all need to pitch in.

Unless you are able to keep the kids quiet, I think it would be inconsiderate to have all 5 of you in business class.