To make nanny and DC travel economy?

[BooAvenue]

We are planning a trip to NY in the autumn and plan to take nanny, DD who will be 6 and DS who will be 16 months.

DH and I will be flying business, partially because I am a crap flyer despite flying frequently and partly because we have quite a lot of air miles that we want to make the most of.

The plan is to bring nanny on the 5 day trip so she can help out with the travelling and babysit for us on three of the nights. I've discussed it with her and she's very eager to come, and the plan is she will have 2 days and 2 evenings completely free to do as she pleases, plus TOIL of 6 days. We will of course pay for all hotels/flights/meals out and she's welcome to join in with us on her days off if she wishes. She also gets her own room whilst we have a 2 bed family room.

The difference between economy and club is about 2.5k per ticket, which whilst we are not poor is still a fair chunk of money.

So AIBU to fly business whilst she flies economy? And will DS need his own seat or will he need to go on one of our laps?

Much more booze available in business class. I would assume that's why.

Oldfarticus, have you actually seen children "ejected" from business or first?

That's surprising as presumably there would need to be two seats together in economy to accommodate.

Either kids or adults being asked to be quieter, yes. Compensatory perks after a bad flight , yes.

oldfarticus
Dont agree with kids running amok on a plane regardless of where they are sitting. And my dc certainly dont do that. However there have been times when we have flown where one might be crting or in a silly mood for a while or got stir crazy pr whatever. We take lots of things to distract them and always have in flight meal to pass the time but sometimes kids misbehave and on a plane you cant remove them from the situation as such!
Anyway I dont fly business class as my short haul hols dont warrant this but I probably wont pay it anyway. Ime flights whatever seats you have these days are damned expensive enough. And being in business class doesnt get you there any quicker or make you any safer. Just means you get your arse kissed a bit!
Pkus buying a more expensive ticket doesnt mean you are likely to be better behaved or a nicer person.

I certainly don't think that two days off in New York would compensate for the long hellish flight

2 days in NY and 6 days TOIL isn't a bad deal and if you've signed up to agreeing to travel then so be it.

It's a matter of opinion. Considering that it will probably be much more work than at home, it doesn't sound like a great deal to me.
It's also not very fair of OP to make everyone in economy suffer her children when she is obviously not willing to do it herself.

Booze is stopped in every cabin of the passenger is getting drunk, otherwise it's free and unlimited (until it runs out!). It is of a better quality in each cabin up, and therefore perhaps a tad stronger.

Oh and we would never eject a child from first or business class for crying. We may ask the parent to come into the galley for a cup of tea (with child) to give the other passengers a break. Most passengers do that without being asked. I've even had Adele singing behind me in the galley to get her little boy to settle down. Sometimes, if it's not busy, we will take a baby ourselves for a bit to give parents a break. Generally speaking babies and children are quieter in first or business as its quieter and darker with less people moving around. They can lie down, with their parents if need be, and also the parents are less stressed and tired too, which I think is a factor.

That's a good point about it being quieter, honey. There's also more space to have things out to feed or play.

Nanny will be delighted to go? Lots of experienced nannies either refuse to go on holidays or dread them. An experienced nanny knows that this kind of work can be very hard. Only inexperienced nannies are delighted to go

As an experienced nanny of 25yrs I totally agree with this :)

Op nanny is very inexperienced - nursery then first nanny job

I've said before working in a home is very different from 7/8hrs in a small cramped place where children can't move about freely

It's not that fun exploring a foreign country by yourself so time off in New York wouldn't appeal to me tbh

And yes if I work full time ie 5 days a week and 12hr days then yes I can earn £35k + gross

60hr weeks are tiring plus then we have our own travel home. I can be out of my home 6.15am - 7.45/8pm Traffic depending on some jobs

I earn every single pound as sure all of you do who work in your chosen jobs

Okay have sat on my hands long enough.

I've seen a DM do a transatlantic overnight with 3 DCs one was a baby and the others looked to be under 5. Don't think baby had it's own seat. Staff were very kind to her and helped out holding baby so she could go to the toilet. She survived and I'm sure nanny will too.

The DCs will be fine - they are with their primary care giver after all waits to be flamed for that one. I'm not saying that's the case with all nannies and I totally understand why some people have them, but here there does seem a bit of a disassociation from being parents that OP thinks it's a great idea that after 3 months with no DF, doing a long haul flight to a non child friendly place with nanny in tow for 5 days seems like a good idea.

Agree with others - leave the DC at home it's the kindest thing for everybody . Hugely long flight and disruption to their sleep pattern so you can feel like good parents. Leave them with nanny and use money saved to go on a genuine family trip like Center Parcs without nanny.

"It's also not very fair of OP to make everyone in economy suffer her children when she is obviously not willing to do it herself."

Again, projecting about these imaginary children.

If OP doesn't upgrade herself, all 5 will probably be in economy, sitting as a 2 and a 3

Then at least one adult will be with each child. I don't need to project. The majority of small children are hard work and often noisy on flights, particularly long haul ones. If OP's children were angels she wouldn't be so keen to avoid them on the flight. If OP doesn't upgrade herself there will be more adults to look after the children on the flight and that will probably mean they are better behaved and more tolerable for the other passengers on the flight. It seems really selfish of OP to quite possibly make the journey less enjoyable for other passengers so that she can have a nicer journey.

I think it is fine, but toddler needs own seat. I also think you need to impress on the children that you can not come from business class to see them when they want. The worst part for the nanny would be a long flight with 2 children who are constantly wanting to see their mum or dad. It can be the worst case scenario, looking after someone else's children, whilst the children know the parents are close by.

And yes, 2 days in NY whilst fun to explore, is very different to going with a friend or family. Also if the nanny is low paid, she may not actually have the money to do anything in NY, except wander around. (I suspect she is not well paid, as she is not an experienced nanny).

Air staff are usually amazing when it comes to an adult travelling with small children. Been doing it for 12 years - boredom for children is the biggest issue, with their ears causing them the biggest problem.

My reason for not doing this would not be because of inconvenience to nanny but because a six year old dc would be very sad mum and dad didn't want to sit with them. Also, nanny is going to be quite busy with toddler I imagine so she won't get my attention on flight. Far nicer if you all sat together and DD would always have at least one adult to talk to.

Alternatively just go with dh, leave kids home with nanny and do a family holiday later on as pp suggested.

You say you're a "bad flier": does that mean you're scared the plane will crash? If so, it's weird to want to be apart from your DC on the same flight.

What if the DC get scared? Or want to enjoy the experience with you? you're putting your desire for a more comfortable flight above caring for them.

Ok so am now reading thread properly. Upthread OP says :

I honestly don't think that holidays are much fun for kids unless they are geared towards children. We get much more as family from DH and I having an adult focused week somewhere by ourselves and then doing a few short breaks to Disney/centreparcs etc which DD loves.

So why not do that this time? Why break your own rules to drag your very young DCs and nanny on an exhaustingly long flight for a short adult focused break ?

Sorry I'm probably the wrong person to be involved in this as I do not understand at all why any sane person would willingly take such a long flight just to visit a city where the main attractions seem to be shopping and restaurants, why not just go to London for a fraction of the cost and time?

And yes before everyone piles in Statue of Liberty, site of the twin towers, MOMA yadda yadda yadda. However loads of attractions closer to home that I'm sure a 6 year old will find equally engaging. 18mth will not care as long as somewhere to run around and a cardboard box to play with.

Yes I don't know why you're taking them OP. Its geared to adults and you want to dine out without them for 3 of the 5 nights. You should make it a couples break and take them somewhere for a week of childhood fun.

Having said that, if your DH hasn't seen them for 3 months, I don;t know why you;re not doing something more family oriented anyway, but that's just my opinion for what it's worth.

Look after your own children or don't take them. I don't understand your mindset at all

Of all the posts, the oddest one for me was when the OP said her DD was 'obsessed with America' and could be upset if her parents went without her.

Since when did a 6 yr old dictate a parents' behaviour?

I'm not sure how a 6 yr old can be obsessed with a country anyway....but it might be a good lesson for her to learn she can't always have what she wants.

If you can afford a full time nanny and can fly 2 people B Class then you aren't broke.

You ought not to take a baby into BC, or a small child for that matter- my DH would be very cross if his sleep was disturbed by a noisy child.

My view is you go Premium Economy- all of you- and stop being precious. If you are a nervous flyer go and get some help- plenty about.

nothing wrong at all with putting children and nanny in economy but definitely get toddler a seat.

i never used to take permanent nanny on holiday with us when DCs were little. If needed I would get a temp for the week to come with. Much easier to ask a temp to do difficult hours on holiday (already agreed beforehand) than to upset a permanent employee.

however, much better idea to leave children at home with nanny and have an adult break in NY. unless you spend a lot of time in FAO Schwarz and buy them whatever they want they are not going to care about being in NY. And you could do that in Hamleys.

NY with teenagers is really good. They can wait.

I doubt this is relevant to the op but I really disagree with the view that children wouldn't appreciate New York.

I would draw the line at taking a toddler but we went when our son was five and had a brilliant and completely child friendly holiday there. Seeing some of the sights with a small child was magical and unforgettable.

The only problem was, our son wanted to go back the following year and was a bit disappointed when we decided on a bucket and spade holiday instead.

(We all flew economy class.)

OK, so I've only read 8 pages so sorry if I'm repeating others...

I'm still recovering from our Christmas holiday long haul in club with our 3 yo and just turned two year old (so had own seat).

It did rather detract from the relaxing business class flat bed and champagne experience, obviously. Probably slightly better than last summer when younger was only 18mo and lap infant in club. However , if you are flying ba they have child seats for toddlers that fit in the bassinet position, so they can have a sleep in that rather than on you! Even taking it in turns between us it was hard work with two dcs and two parents. So I wouldn't want to do it with one adult to a child plus lap infant for all the reasons others have state d.

I don't have a nanny, but if I were in your position I would take the infant in club with the parents, so 2:1 ratio, you can take it in turns, and have some champagne together at nap time. Apart from anything else it should only cost 10%, so presumably around £250 for him to be a lap infant in club, less if a reward booking, which is probably less than buying his own seat in economy.

Dh and I go away on a short child free break every year, but don't dare leave them for more than three days so far! Then our family holidays are family friendly, although I am still wishing for the day they agree to spend an hour in the kids club!

Of course the nanny should be in economy! We can't have the servants getting above themselves, can we. Likewise with her hotel accommodation, if you get a suite, you can just give her a mattress on the floor. Nannies, like cleaners, aren't real people. :-/

OP, I can just imagine you teetering out of first class with a tiny handbag while your nanny deals with the kids and the luggage. Then, when you get to the hotel, you'll go for a massage after your tiring business class flight and leave your nanny to sort out the kids.

You sound horrific. If you are even slightly interested in those poor kids, do one of the following:

1. Stop being selfish and start being a proper mum who spends time with her kids, or
2. Keep being selfish and treat your nanny like gold dust so your kids have a loving and constant presence who sticks around for the whole of their childhoods.

At the moment, it sounds like the nanny is more of a parent than you are. That's fine in itself. However, treating her like a lower lifeform means she won't be likely to last long. Your kids will suffer if you have an endless procession of proxy parents in and out of their lives. If you aren't interested in your kids, then ffs treat the nanny well so she stays around for them.

I'm not chippy btw, I know plenty of working mums with nannies. Those nannies are treated like family. I don't know anyone who takes the nanny on holiday though - most mums like to, you know, SPEND TIME with their kids in the 6 weeks they have off from work :-/

It would be much easier to have week in Yorkshire or the Lake District wouldn't it? Your child might even learn something about the geography and customs of different parts of the UK.

Floisme - how long was your trip though, and I'm guessing there was no nanny involved .

Look at the end of the day I'll probably never get to fly Business Class or above. I said to DH actually at the weekend that it would be lovely to fly First class but probably never going to happen in my lifetime as unless we won the lottery can always think of a better use for that extra few thousand and we don't do much work travel any more to accumulate points.

I'd probably be a lot more understanding of the scenario if OP was flying to say Orlando or the Bahamas for a fortnight of child centric holiday.

The DD has no idea what she's saying when she says she wants to go to America. it's a very big place. My niece aged 13 expressed a keen interest to go there but could not say what state/town she wanted to go to or indeed why. It's just a thing people and children say. A very convenient way for OP to convince herself that it wasn't a selfish thing to do as DCs are coming with them but nanny doing most of the work.

I have to say I agree with rookiemere, I live in the US and have been to NYC and while the museums and Broadway shows and Statue of Liberty, etc. are great, so much of NY is shopping and restaurants. I enjoyed Philadelphia more, with so much of US history being centered around that area, and the Liberty bell and Benjamin Franklin.

London sounds much more exciting to me, as far as big cities go. I don't enjoy flying or I'd probably be over there in a flash. I've been enamored of England and all of the UK since I was little and read all my mom's collection of gothic mysteries that always touched on the culture and history there. I realize I have a romantic view of it, but it sounds a much more fun time, for adults and children, than NY. Truly, all this trouble to fly to NYC to go out dining and drinking? No way I'd go there, even the relatively short distance, to do mostly that. No way.

I also agree with the others, and in my pp, why even take your children? They may not even notice if you left them at home to go on your self centered trip. You sound very distant from them. You don't seem a very hands on mother in the first place. I don't get your mindset at all.