To think right wing small c conservatives are winging the debate all over the Western World.

[AmyWatt1972]

Social Conservatives (not necessarily torys) are doing well across countries across the world.

Trump is likely to be the next republican candidate and if certain polls are right could win up to 43 states.

www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-01-08/new-poll-shows-donald-trump-is-a-real-threat-to-hillary-clinton

www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/05/poll-shows-gops-two-rival-wings-combine-to-50-percent-for-2016/

In Britain the no EU poll is surging ahead and I heard on the big questions that only 7% of women are feminists. Polls are also showing that the public is taking conservative stances on refugees and monarchy.

Aibu to think 2015 was the year the left wing lost the argument and 2016 the year real conservatism is brought back to life.

P.S Thanks Corbyn and The Guardian.

As other have mentioned earlier I find typical left right talk rubbish as you can have diametrically opposite left and right economic and social policy. I like the political compass approach which tries in some way to compensate for that.

www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015

I didn't vote labour as I didn't want tory lite, corbyn maybe has changed that a bit but he has some really good ideas and direction but others are being handled terribly i.e Trident is becoming a massive issue when it shouldn't at all, I dont get corbyns approach on this issue and why it has need so much attention by him.

I am very curious as to what direction the lib dems will take now, especially in light of their support for military action.

Just did that quiz Dad, it's interesting

thecatsmeow I plot in that square as well, which to me makes sense as to why I find it hard to vote for either lab/cons.

All the left wing Guardian readers I know are like me: earning around 20K to 70K a year, driving shitty old cars, crippled by huge mortgages and childcare costs, still paying off student loans and with our children in non-selective state schools. Many are in mid-level public sector jobs, teaching, nursing, mid-level IT. Outside of the NHS and teaching almost everyone fears for their job security.

I think this is kind of the point. The Labour party (at least the Guardianish end of it) might have been set up to represent the interests of the industrial proletariat in government, but nowadays is firmly oriented towards middle-class public sector workers. This is a large part of the reason why swathes of the working class are defecting to UKIP.

Dad I know what you mean, I love labour with Jeremy Corbyn though. Previously it was like choosing between two Tories

Thecats - in total agreement about Labour. I had to vote Green as I just couldn't vote for the Tories but a bit less so (Milliband Labour). I could vote for a Corbyn Labour party; not that I'll probably get chance. At this rate he'll have been overthrown before the next election and there's no way I can support Burnham as leader because of the ridiculous things he did on ID cards.

Your phone needs charging :)

Yes, you put that clearly and well Manatee.

I fit some of that stereotype, but I don't read The Grauniad or any paper on a regular basis.

I must admit I often find the terms left and right applied in quite an arbitrary way. I am and always have been against the EU and apparently that makes me rightwing. The head of the IMF was going to be the socialist candidate for president in France.

Maybe it is time to find new terms.

Tony Benn was a Eurosceptic :)

I blame Tony Blair.

For everything.

Including the disappearance of Texan bars.

I've never really understood why it's seen as a left wing policy to be pro EU when being part of Europe has a disproportionate adverse effect on the working class.

Stamped.

I had a loooong post ready expounding on your post but lost it!

In a nutshell, I agre.

In a country where national newspapers have front pages describing "swarms of migrants", I don't know how anyone can claim we aren't allowed to discuss immigration.

Instead it seems like basic realities around the funding of important public services are fudged in discussions.

Hence, we've had increasing privatisation, without any evidence of it providing better services.

Voyage - it's not just about high rises though, there is a strange antipathy in the UK towards living in a flat, which you don't find in other countries.

Also, I'm not sure how people can claim Jeremy Corbyn is inauthentic. Like him or loathe him, he's held the same opinions and lived by them for a very long time.

Voyage - it's not just about high rises though, there is a strange antipathy in the UK towards living in a flat, which you don't find in other countries

It's less so in Scotland,especially in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

According to the quiz I'm a very slightly left of centre libertarian- which is probably correct.

stampeding - I've never really understood why it's seen as a left wing policy to be pro EU when being part of Europe has a disproportionate adverse effect on the working class.

In 19 Jaques Delors made an extremely clever speech to the TUC, in which he argued that, as Thatcher rampaged through public services, the only way for the Left to cling on within the UK was to support the implementation of social / employment protection laws at supranational level. Effectively he was saying 'The unions are finished in the UK but if you hand what's left of your power to the EU we'll carry on doing your work for you'. Since then it's been an article of faith for much of the left that the EU is a progressive thing that works to mitigate the worst of the UK's otherwise rabidly right-wing impulses.

IMO recent events argue against this, not least the appalling cost of the euro to working people (especially the young) in Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain; the depression of working-class wages in many countries as a result of 'free movement'; the transparently corporatist approach to regulation and trade agreements to name but a few. But apparently, for some on the left, these matters are a small price to pay for a supranational human rights court and some employment protections they seem to believe would be instantly repealed outside the EU.

*In 1988.

And here's long-time Labour eurosceptic Kate Hoey on why leaving the EU is a left-wing move.

It was the Conservatives that took us into the EU, many Labour politicians were opposed to joining.
Living in flats is more common on the continent. My Swiss former boss said that continental cities weren't as 'sprawling' as British ones because more people lived in flats, and they didn't have such large suburbs.

Manatee - thanks. Am at work now but am going to take a proper look at that link later.

High rise buildings may solve the lack of available housing. It would not solve the crammed roads, or the numerous other issues that are caused by, put simply, Too Many People.

Thank you Manatee, interesting posts. As for crammed roads, stamped, surely that has more to do with poor and overpriced public transport services combined with a lot of people who feel that they need a car to show that they are grown ups.

There are reasons for everything, of course.

Waiting lists on the NHS - not enough money.
Housing crisis - not enough homes.
Not enough space - plenty of space; high rise buildings are the answer.
Local schools crammed full - build more
Too much traffic - public transport is bad

In essence, there are ways around these things but all of them are reactive to a growing population. We have a population density that is one of the highest in the world. Managing this is only ever going to be fire fighting: as it continues to grow, what then?

Higher taxes - for the hospitals, the new schools, the public transport?
Keep building high rise buildings that practically touch the moon?
No wildlife? No more green and pleasant land?

Yes, we can. We can always solve an issue. I just would prefer it wasn't an issue to start with.

biggest problem is still obsession with business being in south. if it was more distributed across the country. The digital age should have brought this obsession to a close but it hasn't.

The second world war hasn't receded from our memory at all. They are deliberately trying to push us into repeating it. The same corporate bastards at work ... having a giggle as the masses battle it out and raking it in from the arms sales.