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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think right wing small c conservatives are winging the debate all over the Western World.

125 replies

AmyWatt1972 · 17/01/2016 17:43

Social Conservatives (not necessarily torys) are doing well across countries across the world.

Trump is likely to be the next republican candidate and if certain polls are right could win up to 43 states.

www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-01-08/new-poll-shows-donald-trump-is-a-real-threat-to-hillary-clinton

www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/05/poll-shows-gops-two-rival-wings-combine-to-50-percent-for-2016/

In Britain the no EU poll is surging ahead and I heard on the big questions that only 7% of women are feminists. Polls are also showing that the public is taking conservative stances on refugees and monarchy.

Aibu to think 2015 was the year the left wing lost the argument and 2016 the year real conservatism is brought back to life.

P.S Thanks Corbyn and The Guardian.

OP posts:
TheCatsMeow · 17/01/2016 19:53

VOD I'm not just on about living im on about offices and other businesses too. It works in almost every other country

ghostyslovesheep · 17/01/2016 19:56

but it IS Racism if you ONLY blame immigrants for those issues

lack of investment in schools and school building

cuts to the NHS

Privatisation and lack of investment in social housing

Loss of low skilled jobs

Loss of industry

Massive unprecedented cuts in public services (from £17 million to £5 million in ONE YEAR for us)

This government WANTS you to blame this all on the TINY proportion of refugees etc this country takes - it stops people asking difficult questions

stampedingthefields · 17/01/2016 20:00

Not at all ghosty - I am talking about immigration, whilst you are talking about immigrants - a seemingly insignificant but in fact important part of the lexis.

Being concerned about immigration is a concern about a political policy (being part of the EU) and feeling it is not favourable.

Being concerned about immigrants - blaming them, disliking them, treating them unkindly or impolitely - if the concern takes that form - is indeed racism.

Cameron et al are quite pro-EU, though I think may buckle under popular demand, so I don't know quite which government you refer to when you state 'they want you to think that.' Which is another part of the problem, which assumes people are too stupid to think for themselves and need to be educated out of their stance.

ghostyslovesheep · 17/01/2016 20:04

erm you are confusing me to be honest Stamp - I haven't mentioned the EU!

I was addressing your assertion that immigration was the reason the NHS/Local Gov/Housing etc was under pressure

This government want you to believe that

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/25/local-government-councils-funding-gap-critical-budget-cuts-social-care-spending-review

They don't want people asking questions about the cuts they are implementing

You are aware of the cuts they have made in real terms to the public sector - including the NHS I assume? - nowt to do with immigration

stampedingthefields · 17/01/2016 20:08

Being part of Europe is the main reason for surges in people from, well, Europe :) coming to live and work in the U.K.

Cuts have been made and the reasons for these are many and varied and they most certainly aren't to do solely or even mainly to immigration - I would be more inclined to say many cuts to the NHS are as a result of an ageing population. However, more generally than this, I don't think I have heard anyone claim that cuts have happened because of immigration.

I'm afraid I take what the guardian says with more salt than the Pacific Wink it is hardly a reliable source.

fatdad21 · 17/01/2016 20:12

It seems mumsnet is the place to come for political and economic debate these days, so I hope you don't mind a bloke joining in?

The immigration issue is interesting, on the one hand it uses up scarce resources and can cause lots of tension amongst the population of an area. On the other a lot of the economic growth since 2010 and any prediction of growth in the next 5 years is based upon net migration staying at the same level.

Also I wouldn't really say conservatives are winning the debate on anything, Trump if selected by the GOP will most likely not win, this current government of the UK won a very small majority this time, and had to rule in coalilition last time. They should have been able to wipe the floor with Brown and Miliband if they were popular. We have had the most moderate US president for a long time in the White House for 8 years. The Labour party had nearly as many people join them since the election than there are in the Conservative party, which doesn't suggest a right wing switch.

Whoever said that that the Conservatives should not be casting themselves as the party of the working class I'd agree with'. The housing bill and the removal of maintenence grants from the poorest students this week show that they aren't really interested. You may not like to hear it, the changes to the buy to let sector are actually in favour of the wealthy and against those who may want to buy as an investment for the future.

One of the reasons why you may think that they are winning the argument is the the media is very right wing, look who controls the press and independent TV stations in the UK and the US. You can buy into their propaganda if you want/

ghostyslovesheep · 17/01/2016 21:40

You might not trust the Guardian but the link is to actual figures on the cuts - which are deep and heavy and effecting essential services right now - I know - I work for social services! (with - amongst other, unaccompanied asylum seeking children)

Fatdad is right - the media in this country is not fervently left wing!

knobblyknee · 17/01/2016 22:02

Do I agree with you? No. No I do not. The right is not winging. Wingeing is all they are good for.

And apparently you are anti equality for women also. Then stop taking advantage of your education and status, and get back to supporting your husband.

Dollymixtureyumyum · 17/01/2016 22:43

The left look down on the working class Hmm.

UndramaticPause · 17/01/2016 22:45

The left see the working class as a pet project. Well. The champagne socialist element do anyway

Dollymixtureyumyum · 17/01/2016 22:46

I am fed up of the upper class thinking they know what's best for us working class.

UndramaticPause · 17/01/2016 22:48

I'm fed up with the champagne socialists thinking they know what's best for us and am fed up with being patronised by them

ComposHatComesBack · 17/01/2016 23:04

I'm fed up with the champagne socialists thinking they know what's best for us and am fed up with being patronised by them

Oh do be quiet. The grown ups are talking.

Atenco · 18/01/2016 03:10

If you want to fix a problem, you've got to know what the cause is? Saying that immigration is the reason for all the problems in the NHS, housing, employment and even crowded trains is madness.

Crowded trains, for example, are much more profitable for the operators than trains where everyone has a seat. A failing NHS opens up a great market for private health. Etc. etc.

Atenco · 18/01/2016 03:50

And as for the OP, give me Muslims and Mexicans over the Donald Trumps of this world, any day.

HelpfulChap · 18/01/2016 05:49

I vote for Stamped!

stampedingthefields · 18/01/2016 06:49

Atenco, immigration is absolutely not the sole reason for pressure on the NHS and on other resources. We have a steadily growing birth rate, an ageing population and large numbers of migration.

I do, in fact, feel people should restrict their family size due to the environmental impact but recognise you cannot force people to do so, and i hazard a guess euthanasia will become legal in the next two decades if not before, but the fact is that it is not now. In any case, migration is a bigger cause of the surge than both those two factors put together, or did in 2013/14 at any rate - 259,700 in migration compared to 226,200 from natural growth. In other words, to summarise, we cannot control the population by restricting family size or by bumping people off so migration is the only thing we can control.

Bandying 'racist' about actually perpetuates racism. Why? Because when you know you are not racist (as I do) but have a concern and feel you cannot express that concern because an assumption is jumped to, you become frustrated. There's a 'hanged for a sheep as well as for a lamb' element to it, but more than that: when values are driven underground they generally become more extreme through ignorance - and why ignorant - because questions can't be asked without cries of 'racist.'

I'm actually disappointed I'm making these posts, as I thought Mumsnet and other factors had long since realised this.

HelpfulChap · 18/01/2016 06:58

Couldn't agree more.

Labour trying to quash any debate on immigration (at the time of East European nations entry into the EU) by labeling anyone 'anti' as racist totally backfired on them and probably did more to help UKIP than anything Farage has ever said.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/01/2016 07:52

Yes the Tories never look down on the working class

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/01/2016 07:55

And methinks you are getting the Guardian and Mail mixed up

stampedingthefields · 18/01/2016 08:25

There are similarities between the Guardian and the Mail, albeit from opposite perspectives.

minifingerz · 18/01/2016 08:29

Yes - the world is becoming more unequal and selfishness, hard-heartedness towards the desperate, conspicuous consumption and greed is much more morally and socially acceptable than it has been for many years.

I can't watch the news any more, it makes me feel so very very sad and scared for my children.

minifingerz · 18/01/2016 08:33

"There are similarities between the Guardian and the Mail, albeit from opposite perspectives"

What? An enthusiasm for celebrity twaddle, articles body shaming women, and a tendency to focus on sufferings of the middle-class home owners over the age of 50, whose lives are being made unbearable by immigrants, benefit scroungers and single parents? Hmm

TheCatsMeow · 18/01/2016 08:38

Stamped I don't think anyone's saying we can't discuss immigration as I said before its how it's discussed that's the problem

stampedingthefields · 18/01/2016 10:07

The guardian is one sided and presents problems rather than solutions, as does the Mail.

The target audience may be different but unbiased media it isn't.

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