To think right wing small c conservatives are winging the debate all over the Western World.

[AmyWatt1972]

Social Conservatives (not necessarily torys) are doing well across countries across the world.

Trump is likely to be the next republican candidate and if certain polls are right could win up to 43 states.

www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-01-08/new-poll-shows-donald-trump-is-a-real-threat-to-hillary-clinton

www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/05/poll-shows-gops-two-rival-wings-combine-to-50-percent-for-2016/

In Britain the no EU poll is surging ahead and I heard on the big questions that only 7% of women are feminists. Polls are also showing that the public is taking conservative stances on refugees and monarchy.

Aibu to think 2015 was the year the left wing lost the argument and 2016 the year real conservatism is brought back to life.

P.S Thanks Corbyn and The Guardian.

As the second world war recedes into history people are stopping valuing other people and are just pursuing selfish interests. People who are not doing so well e.g. immigrants do not have a vote or have dropped out and don't vote or they blame immigrants and vote ukip

Also when the internet began it was started by nerds/academics who were more left leading whereas now the right wing have cottoned on (see comments on most news articles) and are using the internet for their own purposes. The newspapers are losing money so they are owned by oligarchs who use them to promote their own selfish interests i.e. increase power of private companies and destroy government.

Just currently in the UK the left has shattered some have gone to UKIP and then there is a choice of labour libdem green. It is possible the the EU referendum might split the conservatives which might give a progressive leader a chance.

I am socially liberal and financially conservative

And just so everyone's clear in the us the Tory's would be seen as very left wing they would be views as lefty nut jobs

And Obama is left in terms of us politics but here he is futher right than UKIP to be honest

I do find the insistence here that Cameron is right wing quite laughable :)

He is right wing, just because others are more right doesn't mean he isn't

Even in his own party, Cameron is seen as a 'liberal' conservative. I suspect that's why he was elected in 2015.

Liberal in that he isn't anti gay marriage and outright sexist but to call him a liberal is stretching it.

As said I'm a raging socialist though. I tend to find most people think their views are moderate and anything further right or left is right or left wing.

I do find the insistence here that Cameron is right wing quite laughable

What is your idea of right-wing then?

And stamp, yes mass immigration is very unsettling and a problem for everyone involved, but it is still not the reason for the underfunding of the NHS.

As someone has already said, better than I could, when compared to the United States Cameron is indeed liberal.

I have not stated at any one point that mass immigration is the reason for the underfunding of the NHS.

What we have is a population that is not only growing but growing very quickly. There are three key reasons for this - the first and the most obvious is the birth rate is going up. The second reason is that natural decline at the upper end is slowing - people are living longer (it's that by and large crippling the NHS!) and migration.

Those three factors are combining to put a great deal of pressure on resources in this country - the NHS is only one of them.

I find conversations and debates is becoming impossible with a growing section of the population. I have a strong connection with labour but there are now members of my family that take any criticism of labour or Corbyn as a personal blow to them (unless it has a connection to blairite). I avoid all conversation or become a head nodder. The same with some of my Scotish family who are SNP. Not listening to concerns or shutting down all debates with some form of "ism" leads to people finding other parties who will at least listen.

The U.S. isn't the default though.

Oh, absolutely, but neither is the U.K. and it does help to put things in a global perspective.

Many people who are still loyal to labour have in my experience nonetheless expressed disquiet with things that they would be sternly told off for voicing by the guardian - immigration and welfare in the main. Others have defaulted to other parties - UKIP the most popular I would imagine, but many have switched sides so to speak to the conservatives.

"and presents problems rather than solutions"

???

That's what news reporting does.

It's not the role of newspapers to 'present solutions'.

Austerity has made us turn on the poor, immigrants, and those who are dependant on the state.

The Conservative's policies have created the current social attitudes that labour is finding it hard to engage with. Really not sure what the answer is. For labour to come up with policies which compound and perpetuate social inequality to also tune into the zeitgeist?

minifingerz

Austerity has made us turn on the poor, immigrants, and those who are dependant on the state.

Couldnt agree more, IMO it was a deliberate policy to entrench the tory mindset.
The banks screwed up, Brown bailed them out, the next year they refused to pay the money back. They paid out more in bonuses than they borrowed.
It was a complete disgrace.

The mind set is becoming more like 1920's pre war Nazi Germany than the Britain I grew up in. I'm almost glad the WW2 generation arent around to see it now.

I don't think conservative policy has caused social attitudes, which is quite a patronising stance to take - to in effect, say 'you are wrong. You are listening to the Conservative party and they are wrong, so you are wrong to listen to them.'

It assumes people can't see and work things out themselves, assumes people have no real right to their opinion and need at best to be educated out of it and at worst insulted out of it (accusations of racism are insulting, when one isn't racist of course.)

Even some labour voters will be outspoken against those who are dependent on welfare and immigration and by not listening to them, labour will lose their vote.

There are two types of left from what I can see.

The elite left - Guardian and Corbyn types who live in cloud cuckoo land and have middle class, secure smug lives. They're playing at being socialists and often rub the general population up the wrong way. They're ideologically accurate, but ultimately, inauthentic.

The working class, practical left - who are left wing and who live in the 'real world'. They often hold socially conservative views which the elite left look down on. Their views are seen as being paradoxical and therefore mistaken. They're the types who will vote UKIP when they start to feel socially encroached upon.

And Trump is a dangerous nutter.

I think you drew a distinction there that's both important and accurate hidden, and it's the second type who I feel are patronised by the Guardian. More importantly, for the most part, they feel patronised and it's costing Labour their vote.

hidden it's not inauthentic to be middle class and also be a socialist.

I agree with minifingers

Totally agree hidden it's what I was alluding to in my last post and indeed my first and why ultimately the liberals will be out undoing.

So if you're middle class and well educated you can't be left wing?

stamped - "it assumes people can't work things out for themselves". All of us have, at best, imperfect knowledge, though.

Supposing you're having problems getting a GP appointment, or a date for an operation. That could be due to many things - poor organisation at your local surgery/ hospital, or a lack of staff with the right skills, or there's scheduled maintenance taking an operating theatre out of action, or any number of things.

But if you pick up the Daily Mail and read that increased immigration is causing waiting lists, you might be tempted to conclude that immigration is the reason you can't get your appointment.

If you pick up the Guardian and read that lack of funding is causing waiting lists, then you might be tempted to conclude.......

There's a lot of vested interests out there who are happy to provide us with their version of why we can't get doctor's appointments/ school places/ jobs/ houses, and so on. And draw our attention away from the fact that, actually, for most of us, most of the time, we DON'T actually have any problems getting these things. They like to foster a permanent sense of crisis in the NHS so that they get to advance their own particular programme of 'solutions'.

I think that the 'right' has been more successful than the 'left' in embedding their version of the truth into the mainstream for the last eight years or so.

Fact. I live in a London borough that has seen increasing immigration for the last ten years. My daughter's school class has 14 different nationalities represented in it. We had no problem getting a place. We never have any difficulty getting doctor's appointments. Employment at all levels is thriving. Housing is an issue everywhere, but prices are being driven up by a) foreign investors and b) elderly widow(er)s living alone in family homes and c) insufficient social housing.

"There are two types of left from what I can see.

The elite left - Guardian and Corbyn types who live in cloud cuckoo land and have middle class, secure smug lives. "

I think you live in some sort of fantasy world.

All the left wing Guardian readers I know are like me: earning around 20K to 70K a year, driving shitty old cars, crippled by huge mortgages and childcare costs, still paying off student loans and with our children in non-selective state schools. Many are in mid-level public sector jobs, teaching, nursing, mid-level IT. Outside of the NHS and teaching almost everyone fears for their job security.

I do know a few people earning 100 - 150K a year, media types and lawyers.

They all read the Torygraph!

Your view of there being hundreds of thousands or even millions of Guardian readers and Corbyn supporters living in Islington and earning 150K a year - it' a Daily Mail fantasy.

But Mini, the Labour party loosing touch with its working class roots, was the biggest criticism of the party to come out of its election failure no?

Much was said on the news - by political commentators and politicians themselves that they were patronizing, condescending, dismissive and cruel in fact to the very people they are supposed to represent? And to add insult to injury the idea that they are thick, can't think for themselves, get spoon fed beliefs from the sole source of the daily mail and cant be trusted to make big decisions for the country.

treats

I say it over and over again on here.

Never rely on one source for your information, always read numerous papers and if you are really interested in something, read round it.

I have even explained this to my 8 year old.