To think no-one should be able to over-rule a dead person's wishes on organ donation?

[angelos02]

I was disgusted on seeing the news that 547 people that had wanted to be organ donors were unable to do so because family members over-ruled their wishes. The patient's wishes could have improved the life of over 1200 people.

How is this allowed to happen? I can't possibly imagine the grief that these people were going through but you can't deny another human being's wishes?

BertrandRussell it's hardly comparable.
Maybe if organs could be donated a week or so after death (as in dealing with a will concerning jewelry, money etc) it would be an easier decision for families.
You wouldn't make decisions about an estate or contest a will while someone close was on their deathbed (well, I couldn't).
Sometimes a family might feel that their loved one is suffering enough and they deserve to have peace now regardless of how giving they had thought they should be, until they actually came to it.

I think education and preparation are key here. If you discuss it with your NOK over the years it will hopefully lessen the shock of the question when the time comes.

There cannot and should not be a "one size fits all" approach, grief is unique to us all.

This thread has been very interesting though as I'd never considered that of course you need to be kept alive in order to be able to donate your organs, and that must be so hard on your family.

When my DDad died he wasn't suitable for organ donation so we were never asked about that, however they asked if they could take tissue samples for research. We all said a unanimous yes without discussing it beforehand. I'm sure my siblings all feel like I do now; hopeful that in some small way those tissue samples help progress science and lessen the chance of another family suffering like we have.

From another POV, we sat with my dad for 12 hours while he died. It was surreal and painful and I completely understand why a family wouldn't want to extend that to 24 hours or however long needed to donate organs (the poster above who described her and her DM's experience and final choice has my greatest sympathies sorry, on my phone so can't click back to see usernames! ).

Squeamish relatives shouldnt be able to overule an organ donors last wishes.
The number of people on here who dont get they are stopping someone getting a kidney is just depressing.

The thing is though is that nobody can say if it is their final wish.
They need consent at that time, the patient is in no position to give the consent, the family are. The family can take into account that the patient had previously said they would like to donate. But being there at the death can change things.

I think we wouldn't be having this argument if we had an opt out system as there would be enough to go around even if relatives did object.

The marginal extra distress that a family may feel if organs are donated against their wishes just cannot compare to the saving of the life of someone who's waiting on a transplant list. And I think most families would come around to that way of thinking once the initial shock of grief had abated.

I know, it's unfortunate that the decision has to made during that initial shock of grief. It would be easier after.

Squeamish.

There is always one. Always one who doesn't take the time to read people's well thought out posts properly and take in why some people might find it so hard to donate their loved ones organs.

Again, it's a gift. I am under no obligation to give my loved ones organs to someone else. I think we all 'get' that if we don't do it we are stopping someone else getting a kindey an organ.

I don't believe not donating their organs is a moral failing, it is not our duty. It's amazing when people do it and I wish more people would but it's a gift, not a commodity.

I won't donate my bone marrow (stem cells is different) even though the donor who donated bone marrow to my ex husband gave him an extra year of life. I am so grateful for that donor, he did an amazing thing but I won't donate mine.

Cel you are probably right.

Which is why Oselea has a great point. If there was more education about what it really involves, and how you might feel people might be better prepared for it.

I would hate it if anyone overruled my wishes, lucky my family have all agreed on this.

I also think if you don't sign up to donate an organ for no reason, when you get sick you should be put behind donors on the waiting list....donors should get preference as recipients too.

This is a situation where you definitely can't say beforehand what you would do. You just don't know how you will deal with the grief and the pressure at that time.

Waiting for my dad to die, I barely slept (the hospital advised we try but didn't really have a big enough relatives room to rent for us all, plus, my dad was dying!! ), I barely ate, I had a dodgy tummy for the full 12 hours (stress screws my digestive system), and I had cried so much I physically ached. I actually needed to cry at a few points but it hurt to do so and so I couldn't.

I'm a sensible, intelligent, generous, non-religious (I don't believe you need your body complete for heaven or anything) person. I understand the benefits of organ donation. However, after 12 hours of suffering from that initial raw, smack in the face of grief, if they had mentioned donating his organs, I can't tell you what I would have said. I like to think I would have said yes, after all, what is another few hours of my grief if another family doesn't have to grieve? But I can't guarantee that.

Fortunately my situation is hypothetical, I didn't have that question. But I can see exactly why people might say no.

To not understand this is to be a bit ignorant IMO.

Squeamish is a word for not donating blood sometimes. But not donating organs at the time of death.

Washediris

I would feel at least some good would come out of an awful situation. I realise you wont believe that.

You have poor coping skills IMO.

U2HasTheEdge
Oh the irony - you clearly could not be bothered to read my original post.

I am a potential donor who has been told that it wont happen.

"squeamish" and "poor coping skills"
bloody hell.

There is no decision to be made by the relatives. The decision has already been made by the person who is thinking of others after their death.

Stop being so bloody self centered and selfish. Its not like they ask you to dig out the bits and hand them over yourself.

You have no right ot accept an organ if you stop someone else from donating. Its not your decision.

My body, my choice.

This does make me mad!! I did already know that they could overrule so I'm not actually an organ doner "on paper" but I have agreed with my husband and family that they should act knowing that I would want to save another life if I could. They are happy to respect this because they aren't knobs I can't imagine how upset these people would be knowing that their complete body was cremated/buried when it could have saved a life.

Knobblyknee - so bloody true!!! For any of those people who have DENIED the NHS a relative's organs, they shouldn't be bloody allowed to accept donated organs.

mrsjskelton

Absolutely. I dont know why anyone who disagrees would even bother posting here. Its just disrespectful to donors and recipients.

I agree with mrsj - if you refuse to donate your relative's organs when they've specifically requested to donate, you shouldn't be allowed to accept an organ. And since you feel you can override someone else's wishes, maybe the rest of your family shouldn't be allowed to receive an organ either - seeing as your feelings and thoughts are more important than anyone else's.

It's not a gift, it doesn't belong to you to say you are gifting it!

Frankly, that's like me stepping over a dying person and saying "oh CPR is a gift that I don't feel like giving today".

I hope you never feel the desperation of being the one left waiting...

I think I can understand the potential motivation behind refusing to let a relative's organs be donated. For some people the thought of the procedure of extraction may just be too much, especially if they have seen a long and protracted death, which may have involved many procedures itself. It's not unimaginable.

Death is one of the most emotional times in our lives, it can really change our perspectives and the way we think. Saying that, I think that it is understandable that some people go against their relatives wishes.
Not necessarily logical, morally right or respectful. Just understandable that in a time of potentially huge grief, you might make a decision that you may or may not agree with later down the line.

Knobbly, I find your posts incredibly disrespectful and dismissive of people's feelings. People who have just been told that someone they love dearly, whose body they may love dearly, is never going to recover, has ever right to feel whatever comes to them.

It's not about squeamish, and it's certainly not selfish, but even if it were, then that's allowed when you're one of the most traumatic things a person ever has to bear.

Personally, I think it's pretty selfish to expect people who love you, who you presumably love in return, to go through extra hours of hell so that you can fulfil a wish you will never know anything about. But that's only my feeling on it, and I certainly don't mean that I think people who sign up to be donors are being selfish. I mean that it has to be something that is agreed by everyone who it is going to affect, so that includes relatives who are the ones that will have to live through the process happening. Whether they are able to cope with it or not matters, and at the point where their loved one is still being kept alive, it matters more than someone they don't know and have no obligation to.

You may see donating organs as 'some good coming out of a bad situation' and that's great if that's the way you would naturally feel. It does give comfort to some people who have been bereaved, which is lovely. But whether you naturally feel that way or not isn't something you have control over, and the feelings of people who don't naturally feel that way are just as important, and are equally as valid.

I think all the posts about stopping people receiving if they aren't willing to fall in line and declare they will donate are deeply unpleasant. As are the references to coping and squeamishness. An organ is not a commodity. We don't want to be regarded as vessels for commodities believe me.