to object to MNHQ forcing a MALE/FEMALE gender binary on my account.

[HairyLittleCarrot]

I don't have any GENDER.

My MN account forces me to pick from two 'genders'.

I can't even opt out, it's a forced binary choice.

I'm not agender, pangender, cisgender, transgender, male gender, female gender or ANY GENDER.

If you want to know my sex, I am happy to provide that information. But you'll have to add that in as a field, because it doesn't exist currently.

Sex and gender are not the same thing. If you insist on collecting data by gender and making it a forced choice I would like an option as follows:

"Reject gender as a harmful, made up, bullshit concept".

Then when you analyse your account database you can say
X% identify as female gender
Y% identify as male gender
Z% reject gender as a bullshit concept.

AIBU to request MNHQ to alter my account details so that they do not misrepresent me?

No, I'm in (virtual) radfem space... like Hairylittlecarrot, I wholeheartly reject the concept of gender... it's the starched walls in a pink penitentiary that Scout in To Kill a mockingbird expresses.

Have MNHQ replied to you OP?

To me it is similar to the Halal meat issue; better to appease the minorities.

*cotton

It's subtle, yes. But it's there.

What does what genitalia someone has have any bearing on what toilets they should use? A male to female trans could feel just as intimidated being in the men's dressed as woman as you do with a man who is dressed as woman coming in the female toilets? Some trans you possible wouldn't even know. You're going to be in there for mere minutes. I get there are people with issues surrounding this for personal reasons, and that's understandable.

Barry are you actually in trans spaces? Because those of us who are call the state of being without gender 'agender' - feel free to Google.

You do not get to apply labels to other people. I do not have a gender identity and I do not accept the label 'agender'. I accept your right to choose labels for yourself, but I expect you to extend me the same courtesy.

RudeElf

Tragedy. Can you say what loo you're in? If you're in Victoria Station someone will be along to help

I'm in lots of boxes:

Manager at work
Son's mum
Daughter's mum
Children's mum
Church warden
DH's wife
Friend to many
Daughter
Neighbour

I'm quite sure everyone I deal with thinks of me differently. All I can do is be me. That me at work will be a bit different to the me with my girlfriends where I can let myself go a bit more.

Gender - the state of being male or female (typically used 1with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

So yes op, sex should be used instead. However, I think you're irrationally angry about it. I also think if it's bothering you so much don't use the site.

Alisvolatpropiis
fascicle
Toilets are segregated by sex not gender confused

The idea that separate toilets are needed for men and women is based on genderisation. I'll ask again: who has separate toilets at home?

Gender is a ridiculous patriarchal construct based on stereotypes. What does "feeling like a woman" even mean anyway? And if MTF transpeople want to be in women's space because they're intimidated by men, then it's male violence that's the problem. But nobody seems to be addressing that.

Women are expected to budge up and share their safe spaces with transwomen, and stop talking about their bodies because the transwomen don't have the same bits, so it's transphobic.

Women are expected to budge up and share maternity with transmen, and stop talking about pregnancy as a women's issue because the transmen are male, so it's transphobic.

Lesbians are expected to embrace transwomen (penises and all) as sexual partners, because genital preferences are transphobic.

What are men meant to do in all this again?

Oh yes, they're fine as they are.

Yes, I'm pissed off. No, I don't have a gender and I don't want one thanks.

Guys, you can call yourselves what you like, there's just a recognised term for it already right there. If you don't want to use it, then you don't have to.

LizzieMacQueen

Have MNHQ replied to you OP?

No. But I'd actually like them to give this proper consideration. AIBU was my choice because of the traffic, I know I am not the only member who objects to having a gender category assigned to them.

Of course many people don't care about the gender issue, and that's fine. I do. A lot of women do. If MN actually are wanting data about the demographic biological sex ratios of its members then it needs to ask for 'sex'.

If it wants data on how people identify, that data would look very different.

people do conflate sex with gender, so perhaps that is what MNHQ have done here, and I'd like clarity - do you want members to tell you their biological sex, or their gender identity?
They are not the same and I would answer each question differently.

YABU.
This is Mumsnet.

Seriously?? This is just insanity.

Wouldn't some people be cross if it was sex on the form because they are the opposite sex to the gender they identify with? Or something.

I've never really thought about it when filling in forms. I'm a woman. I have XX chromosomes and a vagina and whatnot, so my sex would be female. And then I would "identify" as female because I have those things, not for any other reason.

I don't really feel male or female. I'm just me. I really don't understand what anyone means when they say they identify as a female or male gender.

I think I agree about gender not really existing. I certainly don't think that our biology has much influence on our personalities. I don't like the way children are conditioned to behave in certain ways. But I don't have a strong enough opinion on the subject to care what is in a form.

That's a powerful post, Empress I mean, what does 'feeling like a woman' or 'feeling like a man' mean? It is awful to see FAAB folks being shouted down for simply talking about periods and so on, just for having them.

I could never understand why anybody gets worked up over the public toilets issue. Perhaps my blase attitude stems from going out to gay clubs in earlier years, where I became used to men dressed like women using the ladies loos and women dressed like men using the gents and nobody really giving a hoot either way. When I answer the call of nature, I'm concealed inside a locked cubicle (or holding the door shut if no lock). Nobody can see what's between my legs; I can't see what's between anybody else's legs, and I'm not bloody interested either. If you present as a particular gender then go ahead and use the toilet you feel most comfortable with, because let's face it, the only "public" part of (a ladies' at least) toilet is the washbasins and mirrors, and washing hands and retouching lippy are hardly intimate acts. So why get so precious about having ones privacy "invaded", when that isn't what's happening.

People like you OP are why trans people struggle to be taken seriously

^This, this, and this again, though I'd replace "trans" with "non-binary".

I would also like to add, I think you are making horrible assumtions about men here as well. You mention you wouldn't like men using female toilets or prisons, however if gender is 'all in the mind', why does that matter? There's an issue of sexual assault - do you believe that it happens purely on a biological bases? That men rape on a primative level and has nothing to do with the mind? You are basically saying that if we accpet gender, then men will go out of their way to wear a skirt just to sexually assault women. If gender isn't a thing, then there is no such thing as 'men and women' in a social construct. Therefore they really shouldn't be separated, should they.

As Beau says, we all tick social boxes, does it really matter if one of those boxes is gender? You cannot make gender disappear because it doesn't fit how you want the world to work.

The idea that separate toilets are needed for men and women is based on genderisation. I'll ask again: who has separate toilets at home?

No, it's based on segregation of the sexes, an aspect of which is the protection of women from men.

Of course I haven't got a separate toilet or bathroom from my male DP at home, that's a ridiculous comparison. Why would I need a separate toilet at home from a man I trust not to rape or assault me? One that I have complied sexual consent with (but who I trust to stop the moment I ask) and am happy to see me naked/on the toilet/changing sanitary products etc.? That is a whole other world to sharing a space with strangers who are male, who I do not want to see me naked/in a vulnerable position and who's intentions I have no idea about

When did MN present you with this 'box to tick' op?

Well those who disagree could all tick the opposite of what they are and render a proportion of MN statistics bollox.

So I will now be M (if enough do this we should start seeing ads for shaving oil and cars up the side of the page)

Liz70, does your point differ if we were talking about open plan changing areas at the gym/swimming pool? because preop transwomen have insisted on access to women's changing areas.

fasicle men's toilets have urinals, so you might see an exposed penis there. If you also have one it might not come as a surprise. Women don't generally want to see the penises of strangers. Or sometimes those of male friends and family either...

Re the toilet issue - I do feel that women's toilets are a female space, and I am referring to sex here, not gender. I don't want to be changing a tampon or whatever whilst someone with a penis is on the other side of a flimsy partition wall. Maybe I'm being precious, but whatever. However, I don't think someone who feels female but is biologically a male should have to feel uncomfortable by using the men's toilets either. Maybe all toilets should be enclosed and standalone little rooms, not big rooms full of cubicles. I worked somewhere with unisex toilets like this and it was fine - individual rooms with proper doors.

As for toilets at home, of course they are unisex - only men I feel comfortable around are ever in my house!