to object to MNHQ forcing a MALE/FEMALE gender binary on my account.

[HairyLittleCarrot]

I don't have any GENDER.

My MN account forces me to pick from two 'genders'.

I can't even opt out, it's a forced binary choice.

I'm not agender, pangender, cisgender, transgender, male gender, female gender or ANY GENDER.

If you want to know my sex, I am happy to provide that information. But you'll have to add that in as a field, because it doesn't exist currently.

Sex and gender are not the same thing. If you insist on collecting data by gender and making it a forced choice I would like an option as follows:

"Reject gender as a harmful, made up, bullshit concept".

Then when you analyse your account database you can say
X% identify as female gender
Y% identify as male gender
Z% reject gender as a bullshit concept.

AIBU to request MNHQ to alter my account details so that they do not misrepresent me?

Agender is no good if you reject the concept of internal gender identity because it is an identity that exists only in contrast to transgender, cisgender etc. To a person who is gender critical agender still makes no sense. I'm not agender because I reject the concept of internal gender identity as dostinct from the lived experience of being a human female. So I'll stick to my own definition thanks, I don't need a label, neither cisgender nor agender.

Apologies if I've been unclear. I'll try to clarify.
I am in no doubt about my biological sex.
I would be delighted to never tick a box named gender again in my life.
I share my biological sex with several billion people.
I don't share a gender with anyone because I don't have a gender.

None of my feelings, likes, personality or preferences could be construed as gender.

Asking me which gender I am feels like asking whether I'm from Mars or Venus - it's a nonsense question to me.

Someone said it was something to do with how I "present" myself...what does that even mean? Do you mean clothes? Mannerisms?

"Agender is a term which can be literally translated as 'without gender'. It can be seen either as a non-binary gender identity or as a statement of not having a gender identity. People who identify as agender may describe themselves as one or more of the following: Genderless or lacking gender"

The problem is with this is that for agender to mean anything you accept that gender is a real thing or what are you opting out from?

Following extract from moreradicalwithage.com/2016/01/06/gender-is-not-a-binary/
"Similarly, some special people apparently get to opt out of the spectrum altogether by declaring themselves “agender”, saying that they feel neither masculine nor feminine, and don’t have any internal experience of gender. When I wrote this post, I got a few responses telling me that it sounds like I am agender. But this is a solution I reject, for the following reasons: it assumes that gender is an essential internal property, rather than an externally imposed hierarchy; and it implies that the gender monolith has to stay in place, that the vast majority of people must define themselves by reference to it, but that a few special revolutionary gender pioneers to get to opt out. If I want to opt out of gender, I may declare myself “agender”, but presumably that requires that most other people do not, or once again, the label would become redundant.

My response to this suggestion is to say ok, yes, I am agender. I do not have an innate, essential gender. I’m a person. Just like everybody else. We’re all agender. So let’s abolish gender altogether, and say that people can wear what they like and behave however they choose, without the need for restrictive boxes or labels"

If it's about advertising, then nobody cares about genetics. Advertisers care about what they predict you will be interested in - skirts and makeup or power tools and chunky watches - which is all about stereotypes and social constructs.

Whether or not we personally believe gender is a meaningful construct, the fact remains that certain characteristics including gender, age, education level, income etc are good predictors of consumption across a population.

Not every MNer has a toddler, but enough do that it's a good place to advertise nappies.

Yep credit where credit is due, my post earlier today (yesterday? I can't remember now) was paraphrased from that very article. I found it well written and a good summary of what I think.

You can't say that a label is BOTH a non-binary label and a statement of rejecting the whole gender spectrum/binary/any interpretation of the concept at all. You just can't. To talk about lacking gender implies that other people have gender. Hence, you're saying that gender is a thing.

Also, yep, sorry, can't get behind "until medical science disproves". Until any kind of science proves that gender is a thing, which it hasn't, ever, only biological sex and differences between the sexes, which could be socialised or biological, I can't get behind it.

In what other situation would somebody say "I'll believe this until it's disproven!"? Surely it's the opposite! Why would you give anything any credibility when there's no proof that it even exists? This is science, not religion. Even mental health disorders have proof and they are notoriously hard to pin down.

Agender is no good if you reject the concept of internal gender identity because it is an identity that exists only in contrast to transgender, cisgender etc. To a person who is gender critical agender still makes no sense. I'm not agender because I reject the concept of internal gender identity as dostinct from the lived experience of being a human female.

Exactly. As a concept agender doesn't have parity with the idea of having a gender and implies that having a gender is the dominant paradigm. But my personal reality of rejecting the concept of gender as meaningful entirely renders that idea exclusionary to me. Or something.

I would prefer that Mumsnet had either a 'sex' tickbox (female/male/prefer not to say) or no tickbox at all.

I am biologically female and anti-gender. To me, 'agender' implies that I simply don't subscribe to either specific gender. Whereas I don't think gender exists. I'm a woman. That's it. Whether I like dresses, rugby, study art or textiles or motorcycle maintenance etc etc is meaningless and bears no reference to my biology.

I'm sure MNHQ are following the thread and have noted that a significant number of posters feel anti - gender.

And some feel that they actively want to declare sex in preference to any gender option.

I hope that this discussion helps them consider their options.

YANBU

World's gone mad. Proper batshit.

Because if they changed it to sex someone would complain that their isn't a "yes please" box?

In the Utopian Future, how will people work out how to have kids if there is no gender? Its going to be a lot of hints and guesses and musical chairs and everyone worried about offending everyone else IMO.

World's gone mad. Proper batshit.

^^ One of the most sensible posts on this thread.

have not read the whole thread (17 pages !!) but what are the options to the 'gender' question?
I bet it's male/female, not 'masculine/feminine'
therefore, in this case 'gender' is just some wierd euphemism for sex, and OP can happily tick 'female'

Op were you born with A) a penis
B) a vagina?
If A answer male when asked your gender if B answer female.
It's that simple.

'to object to MNHQ forcing a MALE/FEMALE gender binary on my account.'

YABU and I suspect you are a senior member of the politically correct Conservative governing metropolitan elite. That is the kind of stuff they fret about.

If gender means how a person views or feels about themselves on the masculine-feminine scale (which is what it seems to mean) then do we need to chose what gender or agender (or whatwver) we are depending on what the topic in question is?

I think there should be an extensive questionnaire.
Starting with a massively detailed section entilted "Shoes"
I do wonder what gender I will be based on my shoe wearing habits.
I prefer Converse & Nike trainers and low heal boots for comfort & practicality. Crocs in the summer or bare feet.
Thick fluffy socks for indoors all year round. No slippers. High heels only occasionally since I sprained my ankle.
And I have a pair of baby blue wellies that has a pattern of multicoloured heart shaped buttons.
I used to wear DMs when I was younger (and combat boots for parachute jumping).

"I suspect you are a senior member of the politically correct Conservative governing metropolitan elite. That is the kind of stuff they fret about."

That comment seems to be just as ridiculous as the OP!

OP - if you object, just lie. That would confound those evil MNHQers and would be a suitable form of protest.

'That comment seems to be just as ridiculous as the OP!'

"Tory MP Maria Miller calls for gender-neutral driving licences and passports

Maria Miller, the former culture secretary, added that 'male' and 'female' boxes should be removed from job applications unless essential"

www.independent.co.uk/news/people/tory-mp-maria-miller-calls-to-remove-gender-from-uk-passports-and-driving-licences-a6793806.html

Um...so, what do people who identify as agender wear?! What do they look like?

Serious question - don't think I've ever seen one (not in London...not much truck for this kind of thing in Northern rural Scotland I reckon..l

I agree that there should not be a forced binary decision here it's quite backwards. So is forcing a decision on, eg, sexuality, or religion (which still seems to happen in many places) - come on MNHQ just add another tick box, doesn't need to be complicated but does need to be there

knobbley

I suppose the human race has to die out one way or another?

Hell

Precisely what leaves me flummoxed.
All them Scottish lads on the porridge ads look so feminine in their cute little kilts and tight t-shirts, aren't they?
I wonder if they consider themselves agender - after all they wear no boxers nor knickers!

Gender is not a simple issue I am quite at the posts here having a dig at OP's expense - there are countless reasons people do not identify as one or the other gender and no, being born with a penis (as said upthread) or vagina does not always denote your chromosomal sex or your gender, or your gender identity