To be furious at the messing around we're having regarding taking his kids on a holiday???

[SpiderStardust]

DP and I thought it would be nice to take both mine and his kids away on a holiday to America. My son is 15 and his sons are 18 and 20.

First issue we had was that in the past his ex has said she didn't want him taking them on holidays abroad "showing off" his money etc etc (she doesn't work and apart from that, doesn't like the hassle of going abroad). So for the past 6 years, his kids have no been abroad.

Well his kids are now adults so we decided to take them abroad if they wanted to go and there would be little she could do about it.

Well she managed to talk SS1 out of the first destination we had planned. However, now that it has changed to New York he says he definitely wants to come however, naturally she is refusing to pay for passports and his kids don't work so we said we'd buy the passports. Now, apparently DSS does not use a mobile phone, WhatsApp or any means of normal communication (bullshit) so DP has to rely on facebook messaging to contact him - which 99% of the time, DSS ignores.

Now we're waiting to book flights but really need to passports sorting first. DP said he'd give the money to DSS and he could sort them out. No reply. A day later he said he could transfer the money into his mother's account for them to sort it out from there - no reply. Finally, DP sent a message asking if they just want us to sort it all out - no fucking reply.

It's just ridiculous. This lad ignores all messages from DP unless he wants something. He says he wants to come on this holiday yet ignores every message about sorting the passports despite the fact that we've now offered to pay for them AND organise them. Meanwhile, we're hanging around like idiots not knowing whether to book flights or not.

I said to DP "do you not think it's a bit rude for him to ignore you like this when we're trying to sort out a holiday for him??" and he thinks the sun shines out of his arse and says "no he's not ignoring me, he just doesn't use facebook much". Bullshit - he logged in an hour ago, those messages have been sat there for days plus, he knows DP is trying to sort this out so surely he'd have the sense to check his messages even if he genuinely didn't use facebook much? and to say he has no mobile or other means of contact?? at 20 years old??

I'm just so frustrated. How is it so difficult to book a holiday with what is essentially, a group of adults??

My perception is that in spite of being adults now, the DSS' are very much under their mum's control. In order to keep her sweet they will do whatever is needed to stop her going off on one. It is classic parental alienation, where one parent prevents contact and turns the DC against the other parent. Yes, the DSS' are now adults, but this could have been going on for years. Even DP seems afraid to do anything about her.

As TheTiger says, the contact they may choose to have as adults will be different. But as the last holiday DSS1 went on last year was not to your taste, I don't think you should be put in that position again of him potentially changing the holiday itinerary to suit himself, or moaning when you or your DS choose to do something different. This is your's, DS' and DP'S holiday this year.

Basically, DSS1 is choosing not to reply to messages, which he is entitled to do; but he should learn that such behaviour will exclude him from being invited on holidays in the future. If he can't organise his passport and documents in time, tough.

In your situation, I would recommend to DP that risking a lot of money isn't going to improve his relationship with his sons, and clearly the mother sees it as bribing the boys to spend time with him. They need to work on improving the communication between them and do simple low cost meetings so that it doesn't matter so much if they decide not to come. Big bill holidays should be when they are all getting on well together.

The whole lot of them sound like immature idiots. They are meant to be adults not babies you need to ask after. Don't know how you put up with this for so long.
Book the holiday for your son and yourself. Your dp knows the details he can book it when he sorts his 'boys' out or not bother. You and your ds shouldn't be hanging around waiting for these idiots.

How about instead of asking DH "when are we going to set up a deadline then?" you message both sons and DH on FB saying I will be booking flights to NYC on x date. If you wish to come I need to know by then. Otherwise I will not include you in the booking.

Your DH is an idiot a bit naive to believe his son doesnt use his phone.

And I would screen shot all the unanswered messages on FB so when DSS kicks off at being left out you can point out he had ample opportunity to respond.

You have 2 options. Send the son the message you said. Or go ahead and book it for you and your son. Tell your useless DP that he can book his and his sons when they have actually got passports.

Is this the same posters where the dad waits hand and foot on his grown up DS's? Something about the Saturday rings a bell. This sounds familiar and I never recognise situations under a different poster's name.

If your dh thinks he doesn't use the phone why not put a letter through his letter box asking him to call. Alternatively he could send a letter recorded delivery if it's too far to go. Then theres no way he could have not received it! Or just pop round and speak to him on the doorstep for 2 minutes.

You dh is deluded, his son doesn't want to come for whatever reason. Why is your dh carrying on like this? You are very patient.

Book a holiday for your and your child for somewhere you two want to go.

Or send dss1 a message on what'sapp or Facebook saying he has left a £50 Xmas cheque at yours when is he available to get it. Bet he answers then!

Similarly to Girlywhirly and Puntastic, I fear that these "boys" are still really under the extreme control of their appallingly over-bearing mother. It might look as though he is being utterly useless but in reality he might be coming under all sorts of pressure and emotional black mail from her. As you have pointed out, it is bullshit that a rare glance at Facebook is the only way he is contactable at that age. I reckon she is turning the screws on him and he doesn't know what to do. If this really is the case, then I feel very sorry for them! I know that you are understandably angry but do you think this might be the case?

This will never get better will it op, however many threads you start? You either learn to live with it or get out.

Tbh as the op has posted this scenario many times under different user names I'm a bit inclined to disbelieve it as she's always given good advice and never does anything about it. Same story different user...

I don't understand why you are surprised by this situation.

20 threads in, I'm not in the slightest.

The obvious solution is to go yourself with your poor soul of a DS, leaving your fuckwit to sort him and his 'kids'. And hopefully your weird P won't come at all. But you'll do nothing, as usual.

Nothing except namechange and post again in a fortnight, anyway.

I'm inclined to think it's true, but the op can't face reality and hopes for some special unique advice with each new thread she starts. True or not, it is probably a waste of everyone's time.

At this point in the thread the op usually makes herself scarce and comes back in a couple of weeks with a variation on a theme.

Absurd. I would go mad in this dysfunctional setup and be extricating myself ASAP.

Book for yourself and your son and let your husband do as he sees fit.

the boy (man) doesn't want to come, it's quite obvious!

why keep sending the oldest messages on FB? why not go round and actually speak to him about it. there is no contact order now so your DP can speak to his son whenever he wants. he really needs to break through the barrier of letting his ex control the situation no matter how much grief she gives him.

I also think you need to sit and have a sensible conversation with your DP about his kids but I also think you need to sit and speak to them as adults so they know what you think - you need to tell them they aren't kids anymore, they are adults, they don't need to stick by visitation order or many of the other things that they have lived by. they need to understand you will stick by them, that they are part of family etc. etc. then if it all goes tits up you can at least say you tried.

forget all the messaging bollocks - to me it says people don't try enough. I hate messaging myself and wont reply to messages - want to speak to me then pick up the phone or come round.

Tell your DP he's got a deadline to sort it or you're booking for yourself and your ds. Go somewhere just the 2 of you, that you want to go to.

If he won't pull his finger out and chase them up both you and your ds will miss out and/or a lot of money will be wasted. It will be a shame for your dss2 too as he sounds like he wants to go. Could you arrange to meet up with him to sort his passport out?

Then tell him he needs to man the fuck up and stop being a doormat and letting his ex and his sons get away with excuse after excuse.

Otherwise warning bells will carry on triggering and it would be time to walk away from him and the children (I'd say adults as they are technically, but it sounds like your dss1 needs a bit of a reality check in being a grown up, at 20 he should know better)

And you're planning on marrying this excuse of a man? Wise up, OP!

Ah I see. Thanks fireside and other PP for pointing out the pattern

Not often you see a thread about travel to the USA without the mention of an ESTA - presume you've all been before?

why keep sending the oldest messages on FB? because it shows you when the other person has seen it.

I'm not trying to stop people posting or trying to help the op, but maybe it helps to be aware that it probably won't change much. Possibly someone will come along with the magic answer that she needs, although I'm not sure what that would be.

Fireside, why not drop it then? It's an interesting conundrum regardless of your personal opinion of the OP. People who appoint themselves message-board monitors are more annoying.

I'm inclined to think it's true, but the op can't face reality and hopes for some special unique advice with each new thread she starts. True or not, it is probably a waste of everyone's time.

Anyone else hate it when the OP of threads like this swerve the posts asking the most pertinent questions?

lealander it was interesting maybe the first couple of times. The subsequent 18 have just been frustrating. I cannot understand why someone would post about the same situation dozens of times, but never return to the thread and completely ignore all the advice she is given.