To wince at people who have homebirths?

[TheCatsMeow]

I never used to, I used to say that everyone should have the birth they want and mean it. But my birth went wrong and I ended up with a baby who would have died had it not been for NICU. If we had been at home, he wouldn't have survived and I may not have.

Every time I hear someone say they want a homebirth my head screams "YOU'RE BEING IRRESPONSIBLE". I get visions of myself and my son lying dead. It frightens me and every time I see a woman who is pregnant I think "I hope they both survive". I don't say any of this unless someone asks and then I just say that I ended up with complications so was greatful to not be at home.

But I feel like people are risking themselves and their babies and it makes me uncomfortable. I think IABU but don't know how to deal with my feelings on this. Please don't be harsh.

Sorry you've had such a difficult time, but yes YABU. Homebirth is an incredible thing that for me was the only option. For me hospitals are for sick people, doctors are for sick people, the intervention rates are very high and for me birth is an intensely private thing that i wanted be private.

For both of my homebirths, I had in depth discussion with my husband, doula and mw before and trusted them that if they see any indicators of distress to call an ambulance and explain the issue and transfer would happen if required.

I had monitoring through my first labour with doppler and had 3 midwifes (2 trained, 1 training) with me the whole time as well as dh. In hospital, do you get that sort of care? My second was really fast and the baby arrived before the midwives, so just dh and my doula.

It infuriates me that people think birth is a medical matter, because actually, its generally not, and for me people who go into hospital are crazy.

sparkly you say 'beyond stupid', why? How far 'overdue' how far past 42 weeks did she go?? A normal pregnancy is 37-42 weeks, if the evidence for being over weight and homebirthing was that compelling, why did my mw suggest it for my first birth? I had a bmi of 33 and 16stone......

Of course if there are indicators for baby or mother, then yes hospital is wiser. Obviously i dont know how your birth went wrong, and I'm not commenting on yours, but lots of births that have a traumatic ending, started with an intervention (eg drip induction, which keads to iver stimulation of uterus, which keads to baby distress, which leads to episiotomy and forceos, which leads to post partum haemorrhage, which leads to long recovery and trauma for both) see where I'm going...had an induction not happened and the mother gone into spontaneous labour and laboured and birthed at home.......would any of that happened?

anna re the clearing up, my first birth, dh pumped the pool water steaight into the drain in the garden, mw put the 4 towels in the wash. Second birth, 8 towels put in the wash by my doula. Mw took placenta both times. Job done.

My other reason for home birth....my bed immediately after, all snuggled up with dh and baby. Perfect

The thing is there is a lot of fear around the idea of home birth which is actually fairly unfounded.

This idea that in hospital you have "immediate" access to surgery is bull. The theatre has to be empty, and prepared. Anaesthetists have to be located. So do surgeons. Hospitals don't have endless teams of people standing around waiting for emergencies, and people don't have heart attacks/accidents/give birth on a nice regular time scale, sometimes it happens all at once. Luckily in birth it is rare that there is a true emergency where time is of the essence. "Emergency C-section" means unplanned. "Crash c-section" is what we tend to think of when we hear the word emergency.

You want to research every possible thing which could go wrong and assess the relative risk level in hospital vs at home (depending on the woman's home, of course, facilities, cleanliness, transport options, distance to hospital) - fine. But don't blindly declare that one option is "obviously" safer because that isn't the case. I don't mind the phrase "I don't know what the stats say but XX birth feels safer to me". If you're going to state something as fact, though, research first.

I hear the line "If we'd been at home my baby would have died" line a lot and I wonder if it's actually based in fact or just assumption. Because actually a lot of the time if you'd been at home you would have been transferred in when things started to look dodgy (assuming, of course, that they did, as there is a school of thought which says that being at home in a relaxed, familiar environment without medical intervention reduces the chance of complications.) Depending on ambulance coverage and traffic, you could actually potentially get medical attention pretty fast if anything were to go suddenly wrong. (These things would be important to look at when deciding whether to choose a HB or not)

Not intending any criticism at you, OP, I can't imagine what a traumatic experience it must have been. I hope the debrief is helpful and that things improve for you soon And I totally understand being cautious/anxious in that situation.

Fair enough, its just you said you think they are much more risky. I know lots of people think that but it isnt statistically true. Of course, at an individual level, all birth has risk and some births are safer in hospital while others are safer at home, which is why it balances out i suppose

I've just re read my post and i think i might sound a bit, i dont know, just maybe showy off.....not my intention at all, I'm just passionate about home birth and it probably isnt worded very well

"There are many studies to show home birth is safe. But there are also those that show it isn't.

The weight of evidence falls strongly on the side of out of hospital birth being a safe and beneficial option for low risk mothers. If the evidence was equivocal NICE wouldn't be recommending it.

YY. It's not beyond stupid to argue against medical advice if you know and understand the risks. If you haven't, then it is pretty reckless. You do need to either research, know that you're using plausible sources and have decent reasoning skills, truly understand why the advice is what it is and why you're rejecting it anyway, OR trust the professionals who are trained to do and know all of that stuff. One or the other. Anything else is pretty foolish.

mini in part responding to your comment about having a baby without needing a section. I should think that's the aim of most women who opt for a vaginal birth where at home or in hospital. The figures may well say 5x as many c sections in a hospital but so what? Your comment did come across like women make a choice to have an emergency section and I think we can agree that in many cases (at least 25% using your figures) it is not really a choice but a medical need.

Owlina, I haven't read anyone suggesting that people are having unnecessary c-section. I had a c- section - I wasn't allowed to into labour - and I am sure my baby would have been in alot of trouble without one. In my case he couldn't have been born at home. That doesn't mean the statistics aren't correct though. It does appear that some people need more intervention when they give birth in a clinical environment

I'm not the right person to have this arguement with really, my personal experiences make me too emotionally involved. I can't see 990 out of 1000 are fine because mine was one of the 10 that really wasn't. So any risk is a risk too much for me.

Personally I think it's crazy that in this day and age, in a developed country, a woman would choose to home birth rather than be in a modern hospital.

Have you seen the state of some of the maternity hospitals in this country?

I just get really annoyed when women appear to belittle other women because they've had a section, wether by choice or not.

I am amazed when women say they felt more relaxed being at home. I felt really panicky imagining giving birth and not being in the immediate vicinity of medical facilities.

This, with bells on. I nod and smile and make appropriate noises when friends say they want home births, but (because I would never make that choice for myself in a million years) I do struggle to understand why on earth they make that choice when they could be in an actual medical facility with options for surgery/resuscitation on tap if it all goes wrong.

"The figures may well say 5x as many c sections in a hospital but so what?"

I can only assume you think that it doesn't matter because you assume that an emergency c-section is an entirely risk-free procedure.

"Your comment did come across like women make a choice to have an emergency section"

I don't agree. I think you're reading my comments defensively.

"it is not really a choice but a medical need."

There is ALWAYS a medical need. Doctors don't do emergency surgery on the NHS without a strong indication of fetal distress/failure to progress, or some other indicator.

The question is - what is going on in hospitals which is causing so many more women's labours to go shit-shaped?

OP, I noticed that you thought something was wrong in your labour but felt you were ignored. I tried for a home birth, but at a certain point I also felt like something was wrong. I was not ignored, I was taken to hospital and put on a drip, me and baby were both monitored, and my birth ended up with an emergency section. I've another close friend who has almost the same story about her attempt at a home birth. YANBU to get an anxious twinge after your experience, but I think home births may not work how you fear they do, and may not be as risky as you think. I tried to have a home birth, but my back to back, chin first, cord around his neck, womb infection baby and I are both safe and sound.

Re: Going against medical advice I was had this.

I was referred to a consultant for my last baby, DC6. I was told by the consultant that I was low risk, didnt need consultant care, would be ok for a 6 hour discharge...you name it.

Then I mentioned home birth and immediately I was high risk, did I know I could suffer MASSIVE PPH? That the baby could die, I could die.....all the worst case scenarios. When pushed it came down to the fact that she didnt believe that home births were safe and would not give her ok on it.

I went ahead after looking into the risks further (I had already done research anyway) and discussing it with an independent midwife. I went with the NHS midwives and got far better care at home than I ever did in hospital. In fact, as DC6 was my longest labour by far, I would say that I got more time with midwives in that one labour than I did with the other 5 put together. So although on paper I did go against medical advice, the reality is that I was low risk until the consultant, who to be fair to her often only sees the results of homebirths that go wrong and not the countless successful ones, knew I wanted a HB.

Is it not that there are many more complex labours in hospitals? All the high risk people + some low risk v all low risk.

I think you're exactly right. i think home births are irresponsible. People should have personal freedom to take risks, but not with the health of the baby.

"So what"?????

Honestly????

I think the moon is made of green cheese. doesn't make it so. I dont understand all the 'i think homebirths are riskier' when the research patently shows this not to the case.

owlina its not insensitive to have an opinion that c-sections are sometimes unncessary.

No OwlinaTree, surprisingly the people who do statistics do actually take that into account when comparing risks

bombardier ?

I had DS1 in hospital - terrible experience; I was there for several hours without any checks or monitoring - DH eventually grabbed a MW when I started to push. I was too late for any pain relief and the whole thing was very traumatic - I absolutely blame what I see as the mismanagement of his birth as being responsible for his dyspraxia and low muscle tone.

DS2 and DS3 were born at home - completely different experience with an experienced MW. I can't imagine why anyone with a low risk pregnancy would set foot in the hell-hole that is our local maternity unit.

Right I'm off, not being spoken to like a child. I absolutely hate this guilt inducing talk.

"So what" seems remarkably insensitive is all. What with it being major surgery with risks for both mother and baby.

i think home births are irresponsible. People should have personal freedom to take risks, but not with the health of the baby.

Why do you think that they are irresponsible when the evidence is clear that they are at least as safe, and in some cases safer, then hospital birth? Not picking at you, just curious as to how you came to that opinion.