To wince at people who have homebirths?

[TheCatsMeow]

I never used to, I used to say that everyone should have the birth they want and mean it. But my birth went wrong and I ended up with a baby who would have died had it not been for NICU. If we had been at home, he wouldn't have survived and I may not have.

Every time I hear someone say they want a homebirth my head screams "YOU'RE BEING IRRESPONSIBLE". I get visions of myself and my son lying dead. It frightens me and every time I see a woman who is pregnant I think "I hope they both survive". I don't say any of this unless someone asks and then I just say that I ended up with complications so was greatful to not be at home.

But I feel like people are risking themselves and their babies and it makes me uncomfortable. I think IABU but don't know how to deal with my feelings on this. Please don't be harsh.

ReallyTired I can understand in cases of rapid labour and some people here have explained very good reasons for having a home birth.

To be honest I think birth is just terrifying generally

I don't understand the point about the huge payouts for botched deliveries. What does that tell us other than maternity services aren't always as good as they should be?

But your birth was terrifying presumably because it was mismanaged and you felt ignored and out of control and things went wrong. All of that is exacerbated by the hospital environment. There's been one pp with a home birth who felt their midwife didn't listen to them but everyone else seems to have had a really positive experience which wasn't in the least bit terrifying. I really enjoyed labour and giving birth and would do it again tomorrow but for the fact I don't want another child!

I know it sounds perverse but I think you would actually be a great candidate for a home birth anxiety-wise. I know you couldn't have one anyway because of being high-risk. But it seems to me you what you need is the quality of care that you get with a home birth. And that should really be available to all women, but at the moment it isn't.

I think though that most people both ways base their decisions on emotion and anecdote. Tbh the main reason I had a homebirth was to avoid spending the first hours of my baby's life on that horrific post natal ward rather than it being a rational decision based on evidence.

I personally think hospitals are for sick people and I find it odd that healthy low risk women go trotting off to hospital on mass to have their babies...... But we all think differently.

TheGreenNinja it was mismanaged by the hospital and I love the idea of the care that comes with a home birth. If I lived closer to a hospital I might have considered it. I'd have ended up in hospital anyway but the care aspect does sound great. I think maturity services in general aren't great as like you said that care should be available to anyone.

Am I the only one who finds it incomprehensible that the women who have had the most horrendous experiences in the hospital, are the ones who "wince at women who have home births"?

It is a very twisted logic, and I find it very suspicious. I wonder whether, when some hospital doctors/midwives mismanage a birth and things go horribly wrong as a result, they try to deflect their own failings and protect their arses by trying to convince the woman that "thank goodness you were at hospital, you and your baby would have died at a home birth". I hope I am wrong, because this would be absolutely perverse, unprofessional behaviour.

Exactly, Aury. I "wince" at those who are low risk, on their 2nd plus pregnancy who opt for hospital births, but i don't say anything! Hospital infections, lack of 1:1 care, not feeling secure enough to give birth? All generally avoidable if you give birth at home.

aurynne I am worried that at my debrief they will try to twist what happened. We shall see!

moving maybe they want epidurals or facilities for their babies? That's one of the factors in where I will choose next time

I think perhaps it's more than they don't realise that some interventions may have been unnecessary or may have contributed to things "going wrong" or because we are so socialised to believe that being in hospital is the safest place.

Even on this thread there are several cries of "if I had been at home, me and/or my baby would have died" and I bet if the full facts of what happened were there, they actually may have avoided some interventions and given birth at home or they may have been transferred or they may have been strongly advised against a home birth before they even went into labour.

I wonder how many women actually have better outcomes at home because they are observed all the time rather than machine observation with a midwife checking when she gets two minutes.

I wonder how many women actually have better outcomes at home because they are observed all the time rather than machine observation with a midwife checking when she gets two minutes.

That's a good point. I was on the CTG when I said my baby wasn't moving and just left, I kept buzzing and whenever someone came they just glanced at the thing and said "that's fine" and walked off.

They didn't think to compare the heart rate and movements to the other CTGs I'd had three times a week for the past 10 weeks, if they'd done that they'd have seen a massive decrease in movements and a drop in heart rate, but because he was still in the "normal" it got missed.

Care needs to be individualised

I think there is that point yes.

The second is that when I had a homebirth the midwife comes out when you think your labour is starting. On the other hand if you are a hospital birth they persuade you to stay away as long as possible.

A friend of mine had a horrendous experience where her dd was born blue arrived at hospital 2 hours after labour had started at 9cm dilated. By the time they realised that her baby was severely in distress she was half out.

My reading of that situation is if she had been checked earlier by a midwife an hour and a half earlier than she was at hospital that is likely to have been helpful rather than more dangerous.

Aurynne & fourmore - I absolutely agree with both your last two posts.

I feel sad reading a lot of the childbirth posts on MN when the birth has had problems but few seem to question whether the hospital could have been better, but instead criticise the 'natural birth movement' for being unrealistic. Yet, if you have a straightforward freestanding MLU/homebirth you are dismissed as being 'lucky'. 90% of births or thereabouts happen in CLUs; many are stretched to bursting point and until some sharp questions start to be asked and answers given nothing will change.

I think luck does come into it Peregrina. Any factor can only influence risks not fully determine what the outcome will be.

It is perfectly possible to do pregnancy yoga, embrace hypnobirthing, book a homebirth, spend 2 hours in the birthing pool and end up with an emergency c section.

I was given the same advice re home and hospital births. If I'd called the midwife out too early to my home births, they would have told me to call back when things were more established or sent someone out to check me and then left and come back later.

OK but it isn't like that here, honestly. I can only speak for our trust.

They send someone out from the first twinge?

I kept getting sent away because labour wasn't "established", I never dialated past 2cm.

I think it's poor show that they won't admit you until you're 4cm, what if you're someone who just doesn't dialate?

When talking about 'luck' it was in the context of if a homebirth goes right it's deemed by many others to be 'lucky' not because it was a birth by a well supported woman with good midwifery. Who ever heard of a straightforward hospital birth being described as due to luck? If it goes wrong in hospital sometimes it must just be one of those things, but an awful lot of the time it won't be and ducking the issue by saying it would have been worse at home avoids the issue of questioning why this birth went wrong, with the standard of care dished out with the birth.

Fourormore I found it was individualised. We met some other women on our midwife's caseload as they throw little "tea parties". She listened to your history and so, for me, as it was a second birth and the first one had a short active labour, she said to call on the first twinge. For first-time mums she said call when you're contracting regularly. But to all of us she emphasised we could call day or night just with any worry. If a woman called in early labour she was happy to come out and assess. Because she did all the antenatal care too, she knew us all and what was normal for us.

Who ever heard of a straightforward hospital birth being described as due to luck?

Id say any birth was lucky tbh as I only know one woman who had a straightforward birth.

I find pregnancy terrifying. I wince at people who announce they are having a baby. They are not having a baby. They are pregnant. They may never have a baby.

When people assume they are going to have a baby, make major life decisions or purchases based on the baby they are are going to have, I feel frustrated and panicky, and follow that up with not a small amount of self-loathing. I get unreasonable amounts of rage at people booking 'fun' scans or calling a medical procedure to check for abnormalities a 'gender' scan. I have to do deep breathing when people pay lip service to the things that might happen, whilst all the while certain that that will not happen to them, like they are somehow immune.

I do not share this with them. I am sharing it with you, OP so you understand I do know how you feel.

But, OP, I lost two babies. Including my very first. One earlier and one later in pregnancy. I have had four pregnancies in total so half of my children made it and half did not. The two that did experienced high risk pregnancies, at risk of labouring early. Not a day went by without constant knicker checking, alert for movement, at constant risk of premature rupture of membranes and rapid labour.

When I got to 37 weeks with both of my children the relief that they could no longer be born too early to survive, that I was now a normal, low risk patient free to go into labour whenever I liked. The relief.

So I gave birth to my two lost babies in the hospital, the same place that I was born prematurely, my brother was born prematurely, and my stillborn aunt was born. And I gave birth to my two low risk wonderful children in the bedroom at home with the full support of the medical profession, with never less than three midwives attending me.

You say care needs to be individualised, so too do choices.

I will not go around saying that I judge people for their choice of places of birth. Nor should you. Nor should anyone.

Fourormore they come out when you think labour is starting. The first twinge had been 2 weeks before, that would have been a long time. Once out I was told they only left if it was a genuine false alarm.

Peregrine- I think people are seen as lucky to have easy births wherever it happened.

PurpleTraitor thank you so much for sharing your story, your feelings and your choices ere. Much love to you! (wish there was a heart emoticon in MumsNet!)

Purple, really sorry to hear about your lost babies . I can (slightly) understand a little of how you feel having had a traumatic miscarriage and a good friend who had a stillbirth. I absolutely don't get the carefree joy some women force/feel/think they should show while pg and at each milestone. I didn't dare get even a babygro until i was 38 weeks!