To wince at people who have homebirths?

[TheCatsMeow]

I never used to, I used to say that everyone should have the birth they want and mean it. But my birth went wrong and I ended up with a baby who would have died had it not been for NICU. If we had been at home, he wouldn't have survived and I may not have.

Every time I hear someone say they want a homebirth my head screams "YOU'RE BEING IRRESPONSIBLE". I get visions of myself and my son lying dead. It frightens me and every time I see a woman who is pregnant I think "I hope they both survive". I don't say any of this unless someone asks and then I just say that I ended up with complications so was greatful to not be at home.

But I feel like people are risking themselves and their babies and it makes me uncomfortable. I think IABU but don't know how to deal with my feelings on this. Please don't be harsh.

"But those who are advised by medical professionals against home birth, but choose to do it anyway because it's their "plan" are morons"

That's me then.

Consultant and NHS community midwife strongly advised against.

Independent midwife and NHS consultant midwife supported me.

I had a homebirth because I couldn't cope with having my baby in a hospital where I felt unsafe, and where I felt my baby was unsafe.

Go figure.

OP - I understand where you're coming from. However evidence from the Birth Place Study 2011 suggests that healthy second/third time mums who choose to labour at home are just as likely to come home with a well baby as similar mums who go to hospital, and that healthy mums having their first baby who opt to labour in a free-standing midwife led unit (where there are no doctors or neonatal facilities) are just as likely to come home with a well baby as mums who labour in hospital.

Healthy first time mums who choose home births are more likely to have a poor outcome for their baby, but even so - 990 out of a 1000 (compared to 995 out of 1000 for a hospital birth, and also for a free standing midwife led unit) won't experience a major problem with their baby, so the odds are pretty good.

None of this is intuitive, so I'm glad there is research that can reassure mums who don't want a hospital birth, that out of hospital births can be just as safe for their baby, and are actually usually safer for them (because of the greatly reduced chance of them ending up having surgery or needing a general anaesthetic).

Its amazing how much energy people put into dismissing birth choices with equally safe outcomes but noone seems interested in our overall crappy birth stats. Having a baby in the uk when you could choose to go to italy (for instance) is riskier

Yanbu. Personally I think it's crazy that in this day and age, in a developed country, a woman would choose to home birth rather than be in a modern hospital.

Not my choice though, I'd never voice it to anybody in RL.

Face/palm

"Do not be led to believe just because you are in hospital there will automatically be unwanted or unnecessary interventions"

No - not automatically.

But it massively increases the likelihood. x 5 risk of c/s for a healthy second time mum and x 2 risk of c/s for a healthy mum having her first baby. That's not insignificant.

Op I had two babies and two home births .
The first was easy the second I had complications and the midwives had to attend to dd whilst ambulance came.it was v traumatic and unexpected as the first birth was fine .
I was shell shocked as I kept thinking I'd put my baby at risk .
I'd always assumed birth would go well .
The midwives said the exact thing would have happened in hospital and dd would have been on a crash pad whereas the nurses did that work - to her breathing ,manually .
I went to a trauma session afterwards and it really helped and I hope it helps you as you do seem traumatised .often I think trauma is best re told and worked thro and I wish you all the very best .

I haven't RTFT. I had an accidental home birth. Comments from people after about what could have gone wrong gave me horrendous pnd

"Yanbu. Personally I think it's crazy that in this day and age, in a developed country, a woman would choose to home birth rather than be in a modern hospital."

Um - it depends what your aim is for birth.

My aim was to have a healthy baby while preferably not ending up on an operating table myself having major surgery, with all the risks that go with it.

Healthy women who opt to give birth in a hospital with their second or subsequent baby have 5 times the likelihood of an unplanned c-section. They're NO MORE LIKELY to come home with a well baby than a similar mum who opts for a homebirth.

What's crazy? Opting for a pattern of care that is more likely to result in you needing emergency major surgery, a blood transfusion and admittance to HDU without improving the outcomes for your baby? Or opting for a home birth?

I don't think people are being irresponsible to have a home birth. Most babies will not need NICU and I suspect that more people need interventions in labour when they are anxious/ stressed and surrounded by clinicians etc. If the woman and baby are well and expected to have a normal birth then I think it is fine. Catsmeow I am sorry that your baby needed help, is it possible you are still traumatised. I was very traumatised after my first birth via c-section and as a result spent along tine really frightened for anyone that needed a c-section.

I've had 3 home Births and they were the absolute right choice for me. Mother Nature is a a bitch and things do go wrong with labour and birth, I completely accept that. Things go wrong in hospital too though, I say that as a mother and ex student midwife. Most obstetric emergencies will show warning signs when you are revue wind 1:1 or 1:2 as you do at home.

My real fears were shoulder dystocia and PPH both of which could happen without warning (although there are risk factors). Neither happened but i did take risks with those but researched risks, that made me confident I was making the right decision. I don't think anyone should give birth in a place or way they are not comfortable with. Scaremongering either way is a best, unhelpful. Let people do what's right/ safest for themselves.

I'm sorry you had a tough experience OP. I hope you find your upcoming appointment helpful.

Some of the stories here are very sad, from both sides of the argument. So sorry to all those bereaved.

I've had three births all in my local MLU, all with constant 1-1 care by a midwife, fantastically supportive, got to stay in the room until being discharged, really really good. The hospital stories on this thread sound like a different world.

On the other hand, I had to call 999 once when DS sustained a serious head injury. They took over 45 mins to arrive despite me being told I was the highest priority and being less than 10 mins from the hospital, there just weren't any ambulances available. This really put me off a homebirth when it was suggested for DC3, as I didn't trust an ambulance to come quickly if it was needed.

Only read 1st 2 pages. Sorry for your experience OP.

I've yet to meet anyone in real life who had a home birth and didn't end up in hospital for some reason or other.

I lost my first child after an induction. I was low risk. Being in hospital gave me a few days with my child. At home she would have been delivered still born, although as it was an induction it wouldn't have been at home, but hopefully you can see my thought process.

I would never have a home birth because of my experience, but also the women I know who had them have ended up in hospital anyway.

I'm delighted when a woman gives birth in the way she wishes to, and all goes well. I certainly don't ever comment on peoples choices IRL.

When you are judging people who are "advised not to have a homebirth" then you need to find out why they are not advised to have one.

I had to push for my HB, but that was because I had to push them to say "No, there's no medical reason for this advice, we just prefer women in hospital" with a silent "because we can then get away with having less staff" added onto the end of that when I was trying to find out what was the best option for me and my baby. The number of people who are told they are not allowed a HB or that their area "doesn't do" homebirths are ridiculous.

There is quite a number of homebirths in my area and I actually dread to think how the hospital would cope with the extra people turning up in labour.

The amusing thing is lots of people who criticise HB's wouldn't think twice about going to a MLU if it meant better care. The MLU nearest me has no obs, no theatre etc so you'd have to transfer to the main hospital. What's the difference?

I chose to have one-to-one MW care. How is that a bad thing? Anything that was going to go wrong was way more likely to be spotted than in a busy hospital with a MW popping her head in the door every couple of hours to see how things were going.

Quite cross at people on here suggesting woman are having sections unnecessarily. Well bully for you if you didn't need life saving surgery, you are obviously far superior. What a load of crap. Sorry but that's really really insensitive.

OP I'm really sorry you had such a traumatic experience

I chose hb because I felt I would get a higher quality of care and I think I was right. I knew I would get a mw I had already met from the community mw team and she would be highly experienced - and that if I wanted she would stay with me all the time. I also knew they are very cautious about transferring. Another factor for me was that a hospital birth carried a significant risk of giving birth on top of a moor with no phone signal.

My hb mws were just amazing. They listened to me - really listened. When I told them things didn't feel right when pushing they investigated straightaway and then proactively managed things. Throughout they kept checking baby was OK. I could have ended up with lots of intervention (and they said in hospital it would have almost definitely gone that way) but as it turned out I didn't need a single stitch.

I find it very frustrating when I'm branded irresponsible. It was a very considered decision.

"Having a baby in the uk when you could choose to go to italy (for instance) is riskier"

It's very difficult to compare safety by country, because of differences in things that really impact on birth outcomes, such as average age of mother (age of first birth is higher in the UK than anywhere else in Europe), differences in parity (more babies born in France are second or subsequent babies), differences in BMI (UK mothers are among the fattest in Europe - this has a massive impact on birth outcomes), and levels of deprivation.

I would hate to give birth in Italy. Their c-section rate is 38%. I'd rather give birth in Finland, where they have a c-section rate of 15% and a lower rate of maternal and infant mortality than Italy.

Well, I don't think you are BU. I don't understand home births and I do think they are much more risky. BUT, that doesn't mean I can't respect another woman's choice. Her body, her baby, her life, her choice. I may not agree, but it's still not my decision.

I would want a c section if I ever got pregnant (tokophobia, child sexual abuse, long story). And many people judge my choice so I know how it feels.

our first baby was born in hospital using gas & air only, and was a beautiful water birth and we were out the same day, all healthy and well

Congratulations :)

My first birth was very similar, and I still opted for home births for DC2 and DC3. My choice of a home birth wasn't because hospital was bad in any way (it wasn't) it was simply a preference. I don't feel irresponsible for choosing that.

My own living room, with my own sofa and drinking tea out of my mugs made by DH. The MW cleaned up, finished the paperwork, then left us to it and we were at home.

Minifingerz- co-existence doesn't imply correlation and correlation doesn't imply causation.

The lowest rate of maternal mortality in Europe is actually in Greece which has an even higher caesarean rate than Italy. Australia has the same caesarean rate as the US and half the maternal mortality. So clearly, Caesarean section rates are not the only thing that determine which country is safe to give birth in. Sierra Leone has a 10% caesarean rate, and I wouldn't want to give birth there.

It's perfectly fine if you don't want a c section yourself, but I'd be wary of misinterpreting statistics and misinforming people about a procedure.

Yes i wouldnt choose italy either, but almost all of us chose uk - risky choice!

Whoops, posted too soon.

Being able to get into my own bed without other women and babies was a big thing for me too.

We also don't have a car, which influenced the decision.

nicebucket why do you disagree with all the studies showing hb are as safe?

BombafierFritz- I don't disagree with anything. I just wouldn't choose a home birth for myself, because I don't feel comfortable with it. I don't judge anyone else who would choose it!

There are many studies to show home birth is safe. But there are also those that show it isn't. It depends on how you perceive childbirth I suppose and I view it as inherently risky.

Studies aside, I've seen too many cases where things have gone wrong at the last minute and seconds count in that situation. And if I'm in that situation, I would rather be in a hospital than at home!

Moreover, you can't get epidurals with home births, so I wouldn't want one, But that's just me, to each their own.

"Quite cross at people on here suggesting woman are having sections unnecessarily. Well bully for you if you didn't need life saving surgery, you are obviously far superior. What a load of crap. Sorry but that's really really insensitive."

Oh for goodness sake, don't be so silly.

If emergency c-section rates for healthy women opting for hospital births are more than double that of similar women opting for out of hospital births, with no improvement in neonatal outcomes, there are clearly avoidable surgeries going on.

Hence NICE recommendations (this is a direct quotation) "the evidence now shows that midwife-led care is safer than hospital care for women having a straightforward, low risk, pregnancy. This is because the rate of interventions is lower and the outcome for the baby is no different compared with an obstetric unit. Mid-wife led units can be based at hospital sites next to obstetric units or freestanding and based away from a hospital site."

It's got nothing to do with individual 'superiority' and it's weird and immature of you to read that from it. Nobody chooses emergency surgery - they simply agree to whatever is necessary at the time to get their baby safely born. The excess of surgeries being done in hospital is because of the way care is delivered, and not anything to do with individual mothers.

I accept that women choose hospital births because they feel it's safer, even if the evidence suggests that in fact it isn't safer for most of them. I would never criticise someone for doing what they feel is right for them and their baby. Birth is hard enough as it is. I'd really appreciate people extending the same courtesy towards women who opt for out of hospital births and possibly (though it's a lot to ask) to take note of what the research says about the safety before expressing an opinion on the subject.