Was My Colleague Totally U? I think She was..

[CaptainCrunch]

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am a Learning Assistant in a Primary School, we returned on Wednesday for an inservice day. There were 2 boxes of chocolates wrapped up on the staff room table with a card in a sealed envelope on top marked "To support staff".

We went off and did some training and came back for our break to see that the one of the boxes had been opened, almost completely finished and our card opened too, the envelope scrunched up beside it.

We were a bit annoyed as the teaching staff have form for horsing all the goodies before any support staff can get near it (they take their breaks before us).

With the agreement of my colleagues I wrote this note on the staff room whiteboard:

"Hi, just to say the chocs were specifically for support staff..we have no problem sharing them, but would have preferred to open the card and gift ourselves" and signed it from all the support staff.

The next day I walked into my class and a box of chocs was on my desk, turns out it was my class teacher who had opened them.

She was absolutely horrible to me and said "I'm really pissed off about that note, I've replaced the chocolates". This was in a very nasty, abrupt tone.

I said it wasn't about the chocolates it was because it was clearly marked to us and had been opened without our consent.

She then said "Well, I didn't read the envelope properly, I thought it said to ALL staff...there's a ridiculous divide between the support staff and teaching and shit like this doesn't help".

I was really stunned. We get on well together and I really admire her but I thought this was completely uncalled for.

She is correct in that there is a bit of a divide...mainly because a lot of the teaching staff treat us like second class citizens, some can barely bring themselves to say "good morning".

I'm not going to let it affect our professional relationship, but she's really gone down in my estimation and it's left a bad taste.

Am I being U to let this bug me so much?

Suspect the had had given the teachers individual gifts

I think you were right to leave a note, i used to work somewhere were everyone used to leave their cups all over the place expecting us cleaners to sort them out (not actually part of our job although we did usually do it) after months of them taking the piss i did leave a note near the kettle IF ITS TOO MUCH TROUBLE FOR YOU TO WASH UP AFTER YOURSELVES PLEASE PUT YOUR CUPS IN THE KITCHEN AND SOMEONE WILL DO IT FOR YOU. Nobody said anything but things did improve. It's just rude to open a gift without the reading envelope first. Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant.

DS's school can be like this.

I've been in as a volunteer and seen things like this taking place. The one thing that seems to unite the teaching and support staff is the presence of a volunteer.

OP I don't blame you for saying something. I used to work in an office with a man who saw everything as fair game and it's annoying. He'd take anything from people's lunch in the fridge to items of food or drink kept in desks.

He always used to say he'd replace things like he was doing you a favour.

And if anyone had a gift brought in by a customer, he was the first one insisting it was shared but the last one to offer up anything given to him.

Someone upthread said they saw lots of tins of chocolates and biscuits being brought in but never saw any of them shared out.

It reminded me of DS's first Christmas party at playgroup. Parents were asked to bring and share something, and they had loads of tins of biscuits and chocolates and boxes of nice cakes and things.

None of it made it to the table. It was all set to one side and when it was questioned they said they were saving some for the afternoon party as well. Although they were also meant to be bringing and sharing their own stuff. Some of it was then grudgingly put out on the party table but the playgroup workers were seen taking most of it home afterwards.

"Headteachers should not be putting out presents for specific teams within the school, they should just lay out some things for everyone to take from. Bad leadership!"

It sounds as if the HT had decided to give gifts both to teachers and to support staff, but had to decide to separate them and address them specifically because otherwise support staff get "leavings"

Suspect the head had given the teachers individual gifts Probably. I know I'll get flamed but the head should have given everyone an individual gift. A box of chocolates for all of the 'support staff' is pathetic. Does the head never show her face? I would have gone to her and explained in a semi 'jokey' mode what had happened. When a sense of humour disappears in a school it's time to jump ship. I did.

It would have been nice if the HT had personally given the gift to (a representative of) each team, saying something nice about it, in a public way. Presumably time and schedules didn't allow for this, so leaving the gift, specifically addressed, in a public way, was supposed to stand in for this. And the whole gesture was ruined by someone not bothering to look (having the attitude of "definitely for us as we're the people who count") or looking and ignoring ("doesn't matter, as we're the people who count")

Sadly a lot of schools seem to have a them and us between some of the teachers and support staff.

I work in a secondary school and make sure I know the name of every LSA (TA) around 25-30 people, even those who don't normally work with me as it shows a level of respect that they deserve. Other teachers who work with these people NEVER bother to find out what they are called, I get asked all the time for the names of people who are in others classes!

I accept its a mental job without much time for thinking but there is zero excuse for treating fellow colleagues in such a poor manner - I couldn't care less about what job people do.

I often buy the two teams we have a box of chocolates at Christmas - luckily they both have their own areas so no chance of greedy teachers nabbing them. I was shocked the first year I did it as I was very few other teachers even acknowledge their existence!

Personally I think the teacher who opened them and was then snotty with you is in the wrong.

Your reaction was OTT. I understand why you were miffed but her explanation sounds reasonable as there are often choccies etc in school staff rooms. Perhaps you should have unscrunched the envelope marked 'support staff' and left it next to the box for the teacher to notice at next break.

Weird. I have never yet been in a school (and as a supply teacher I have been in a lot of schools) where boxes of chocs/biscuits weren't just put in a pile and the next one opened whenever someone fancied a chocolate. All this "my choc/your choc" crap. I often can't really tell which members of staff are Teachers and which are TAs.

And I say that as the only member of staff doing playground duty on Cake Friday. Sometimes there is none left.

Totally agree that the head shouldn't be giving out gifts in this way. I'm a Headteacher. For me it's either everyone, individuals, or if it is a specific team I'd hand it to a person. When I put out chocs I choose the time carefully to make sure everyone will get a look in. It's hardly difficult.
Your note hasn't helped, but neither has your colleagues aggression/passive aggression.
Speak to the head about it.

*Teachers need to do leadership, they need to control people day in, day out - this requires a certain sort of personality. They are also overworked and really busy. they are also committed to a job that is bigger than themselves and I'm guessing that when it's shit they have to hang onto that sort of ethical vocational feeling and that can very easily start to rub dangerously close to a sense of superiority.

Also - they work in schools. Schools are places that specifically have to take active steps to stop tribal shit developing. Schools are horrific for tribal shit unless everyone is shit hot focused on nipping it in the bud 25 hours a day. We've all been to school; we all know this.

Put all this together - high pressure, prone to bossiness, prone to feeling superior, the shitty tribal nature of schools - and then, put a lot of them all together - and you are in danger of a dynamic where they are honestly sincerely outraged that they can ever be criticised, however gently and reasonably, especially by "civilians" (any sloppy fool who isn't a teacher*

To be fair, I think that, although this can often be true, the divide can often originate with the TAs too. It's like some either feel inferior/marginalised/less valued or else they assume that teachers think that of them. Then they get defensive and unfriendly before a teacher has even had a chance to do anything wrong.

When I was on teaching practice I shared a class with a TA who had worked in that same classroom for 28 years. She knew every child in the class inside out, knew everything there was to know about support strategies, could manage quite a difficult, mixed age class with a simple hand clapping rhythm and was brilliantly organised. I was absolutely petrified of her. I was 21 and clueless. I couldn't believe I had to stand up in front of the class and try and manage them with her watching. I was embarrassed that I was supposed to be in charge but she was so much older and better.

Yet in my first feedback session, 'relationship with support staff' was noted as a cause of concern. This TA, when asked how we were getting on, had said that I thought I was superior to her and didn't value or include her!

In all the schools I've ever worked in I can't think of a single teacher who would have deliberately opened chocolates labelled 'for the Support Staff'.

It must have been an accident, but your note implies that it was done on purpose.

That's what she was annoyed about, the implication that you thought it was done on purpose and were therefore accusing the teaching staff of being capable of knowingly taking a present intended for you. Insulting, to say the least.

And yes, in the circumstances, end of term, lots of biscuits, chocs etc appearing in the staff room for general consumption, I can well believe she didn't read the note.

Manicinsomniac - "I was absolutely petrified of her." - and yet you are trying to argue that the TA was the problem in your relationship? You describe yourself as 21 and clueless, embarrassed, and intimidated, and you don't think that you in any way gave off bad vibes?

Maybe the TA interpreted the bad vibes as superiority and that was a mistake - as you actually felt inferior. But it is very likely you were not being friendly or inclusive

Thymeout, you think my masters educated, super efficient attention to detail teacher can't read an envelope? Also it was nothing to do with the fact they ate the chocolates, it was the lack of ownership that a mistake had been made.

...and it wasn't the end of term, it was the first day back with no pupils.

Your note was fine.

Thanks Saxons.

In my old school I can completely believe this would happen, our staffroom notice board looked like a page of passiveaggressivenotes.com not helped by the head of the admin team being married to the Head.

At my current school it's the complete opposite. Teachers and support staff all intermingle and if you came into the staffroom at lunch you wouldn't be able to pick out who is SLT, who is a teacher or who is support staff. I love my new school.

I don't think the HT necessarily needs to be putting out things for all staff. In some schools I worked in the HT would put in two tubs of biscuits - one for first break and one for second. That wouldn't be seen as unfair by anyone (surely?), but in this case it just so happens that it's support staff who have the second break whereas in some places first and second break would be a mix if the children have different breaks.

Hopefully the teacher will realise she was out of order in her reaction. If you accidentally open another groups chocolates then when you realise you apologise. You don't get on your high horse accusing them of being the one causing the divide.

Do you really think she did it on purpose? Honestly?

I really can't imagine this happening in any school I've worked in.

It's not relevant whether it was "on purpose" or not. She did something wrong and made out we were in the wrong for pointing it out.

And bully for you that you can't believe it, everyone has a different work and life experience, just cause it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Seriously couldn't be bothered getting annoyed about this! My team opened my box of chocolates and left the empty box on my desk. Lets say I have tortured them with tales of woe of HOW MUCH I WAS SAVING THEM FOR A WONDERFUL AND OH SO SPECIAL OCCASION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! like every 20 minutes this week

Digs included
*Oh let me offer you one of my chocolates-.....Oh dear, I can't you horsed them all!
*I was just wondering if my chocolates were nice......I was so looking forward to eating them all over Christmas!
*Do you know what would be perfect with this cup of coffee? One of the chocolates that you greedy shits nicked!

All week I kept it up!

Sigh, it really wasn't about "the chocolates" it was the lack of respect and ownership.

..and the nasty response to being called on it.

I'm sorry but I don't think her reaction was unreasonable. Rather than talking to her like an adult, you told her off (and whether or not she is your boss, I don't know what the structure is, you are definitely not hers) publicly and with the supposed agreement of half of the staff. It was not well handled and will not have helped to fix relationships in the staff room.