Was My Colleague Totally U? I think She was..

[CaptainCrunch]

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am a Learning Assistant in a Primary School, we returned on Wednesday for an inservice day. There were 2 boxes of chocolates wrapped up on the staff room table with a card in a sealed envelope on top marked "To support staff".

We went off and did some training and came back for our break to see that the one of the boxes had been opened, almost completely finished and our card opened too, the envelope scrunched up beside it.

We were a bit annoyed as the teaching staff have form for horsing all the goodies before any support staff can get near it (they take their breaks before us).

With the agreement of my colleagues I wrote this note on the staff room whiteboard:

"Hi, just to say the chocs were specifically for support staff..we have no problem sharing them, but would have preferred to open the card and gift ourselves" and signed it from all the support staff.

The next day I walked into my class and a box of chocs was on my desk, turns out it was my class teacher who had opened them.

She was absolutely horrible to me and said "I'm really pissed off about that note, I've replaced the chocolates". This was in a very nasty, abrupt tone.

I said it wasn't about the chocolates it was because it was clearly marked to us and had been opened without our consent.

She then said "Well, I didn't read the envelope properly, I thought it said to ALL staff...there's a ridiculous divide between the support staff and teaching and shit like this doesn't help".

I was really stunned. We get on well together and I really admire her but I thought this was completely uncalled for.

She is correct in that there is a bit of a divide...mainly because a lot of the teaching staff treat us like second class citizens, some can barely bring themselves to say "good morning".

I'm not going to let it affect our professional relationship, but she's really gone down in my estimation and it's left a bad taste.

Am I being U to let this bug me so much?

[Fleab1te]

Been reading this thread and just wanted to stick my oar in. Personally I don't believe it's ingrained or institutional like the PP suggested. At least not IME or maybe we're just lucky. I'm a TA and there's mutual respect between teachers and TAs. The TAs appreciate the enormous workload the Ts have and how hard they work and the Ts appreciate the fact that they would crash and burn without us

No way would a situation like the OP described ever happen. Cakes/chocs are sometimes put out by the heads, but they're for everyone. Teachers do break duty but not dinner and TAs dinners vary, so while the staff are often like vultures, you don't have a situation where there's never anything left for the later ones.

While we don't go to staff meetings we are occasionally invited to relevant meetings and a lot of our training we do together.

There has occasionally been minor incidents of segregation. Like the time we were kept in the dark about our ofsted report(until the parent letters had gone out) despite the Ts being informed with strict instructions not to tell us. The previous head obviously didn't trust us not to tell the parents. I also remember a teacher asking if a training session that we were all attending was 'just for staff'. Because apparently we work for free

On the whole though we're an integrated bunch.
OP obviously ywnbu but it sounds like your teacher, on reflection has also come to this conclusion. Good luck in improving/escaping your situation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Thanks Lucie, I really appreciate that.

[LucieLucie]

Captaincrunch I would just like to say that I have just sat for the best part of an hour reading this entire thread and have to say that I think you have come across very well and dealt with the gift snaffling incident absolutely spot on!
It was not at all PA as it was direct and to the point.

If children had taken someone else's property in a similar manner how would it be dealt with in school if it wasn't known who was responsible? I would imagine a letter home would be likely.

You have stirred a defensive and somewhat skewed response from some people whom I suspect to be teachers themselves.

I personally don't think that the gift was taken to be deliberately disrespectful, but I do think it was thoughtless and reeks of 'superiority' whether intentional or not.

If the TAs got first break every day and kept being thoughtless and greedy with the food leaving the T without I'm sure it would not be tolerated.

The root of it all I think is that people tend to judge people by their job role, regardless of how they may be as a person.

I don't necessarily think that you leaving to go to another job will help much if it's an institution within schools. Try and stick it out and suggest a meeting with the HT to improve team working. Maybe a fun day out where you are all 'equal' would be an idea.

[Cheeseoncrumpets]

I'm a TA, I've worked in a few schools. Yes, there is a them and us divide between teachers and support staff in some schools, I've never encountered a setting where seperate presentes are left in the staff room. A box of chocolates would be for ALL staff in every place Ive ever worked. By leaving a box of chocolates for just one group of people your creating a divide and conquer atmospheres

[roundaboutthetown]

I'm still so shocked that anyone would deliberately open someone else's present and eat it that I still want to believe it was a genuine mistake if that's what the teacher says it was, particularly as she doesn't herself actually have form for condescending behaviour.

Whatever the deliberateness or otherwise, I still think the school in question is in serious trouble and things will only get worse until the headteacher is replaced by someone who knows how to run a school properly. The leadership sounds appalling! If you keep support staff and teachers so entirely separate, you are asking for divisions and resentments to bubble to the surface. As for looking down on support staff: people who behave like that will always find themselves a reason to justify their bullying and lack of respect. If it's not because they consider the other to be less intelligent and less qualified, it will be because think they lack drive and ambition, or are not committed to their job. Whatever their reasons for the lack of common courtesy and respect, the result is they are too stupid themselves to use their support properly for the benefit of their class. A good school will always have good relationships between teaching and support staff.

[CaptainCrunch]

Thanks again everyone, I've had a pretty good morning so far, teacher has been very caring and solicitous which is the nearest I'll get to an apology

I know what you mean Gruntled. I once had to point out to a supply teacher that pm actually meant post meridian, not "past morning" as she blithely told her class.

[KakiFruit]

Sanity seems to have returned to the thread! I've been saying this for pages!

Yes! There are so many posters on AIBU who must disagree with the OP, no matter how reasonable she's been.

[Stormtreader]

I imagine of the teachers came into the break room to find the support staff had opened and eaten some of their chocolates that they were going to take home, they wouldnt be happy with a "oh, we thought they were for everyone" response.

I dont understand the attitude of not speaking up when someone tramples over you. If the teachers didnt like that note being on the whiteboard then they shouldnt have taken what wasnt theirs - they had already HAD theirs. Bullies are always angry when their actions are made public.

[BathshebaDarkstone]

I think the only way to raise the subject was to write the note. People should read things.

[GruntledOne]

I find it hilarious when people automatically assume TAs are thick as bricks. In the school where I'm a governor, the TAs who support children with SEN go to a lot of trouble to inform themselves about the children they're helping and spend a lot of time training in things like administering speech and language programmes, often ending up knowing more about it than the class teacher - precisely because the class teacher isn't able to spend so much time on a small group of children.

A friend of mine has a degree and a postgraduate qualification and is working as a TA because her DH is ill and she needs to be able to spend more time with him. She says she's constantly buttoning her lip when the teacher says things like "10% of 100 is 1" and "Henry VIII's first wife was Anne Boleyn".

[CaptainCrunch]

You too betty

[catfordbetty]

Have a great day, OP!

[CaptainCrunch]

Cheers for that you too

[RaskolnikovsGarret]

Good luck OP, hope you have a good day.

[HowBadIsThisPlease]

Hurray!

One last point from me before you all kill me:

It is a tactic in abusive relationships when someone keeps trying to talk about change to unfair situations, to always say "oh of course I am willing to talk, but it's how you said it" - while never hearing the gentle reasonable attempts of the other person to talk; and getting all wounded about the more direct attempts as being "aggressive" and "this is no way to go about it, we can't possibly discuss this constructively if you begin like this, fingers in ears la al la la la"

• which is what the teachers are doing

[CaptainCrunch]

Lol, thanks everyone

[StealthPolarBear]

Sanity seems to have returned to the thread! I've been saying this for pages!

[LittleBeautyBelle]

Sorry, Fragola...one g

[LittleBeautyBelle]

Fraggola telling it like it is...well said and totally agree.

[KoalaDownUnder]

Summed it up, fragola!

[fragola]

Arrrggghhhh! This thread is doing my head in. Person T saw Group TA's Christmas present. It was wrapped. It was addressed to Group TA. Person T opened it and shared it with Group T. Person TA wrote a polite message on behalf of Group TA saying this wasn't on.

And it wasn't! It just wasn't! I don't give a fuck where you work or what you do, you can't go around scoffing someone else's Christmas chocolates. If you do, you should be contrite and apologise and quite frankly beg for forgiveness. You shouldn't be arsy and make out they're in the wrong.

I don't know what else to say. I'm going to bed.

[LittleBeautyBelle]

Thinking about this a bit more. I believe you were right to stand up for yourself and the rest of the support staff. It was a small thing, but it was a small thing on top of a lot of other things.

It is likely the teaching staff would not only continue looking down on the support staff but probably would ramp it up as time goes on. So, really, it is better to stand up at the beginning of the kind of casual contempt they were showing the support staff.

I usually let things build up and only when something is unbearable do I stand up and say something...and I think your way is better. Sometimes you do have to stand up even in what seems to be a small thing.

Don't apologize to this teacher. She could have shown humility and didn't. She's not superior to you or anyone else on the support staff.

[LittleBeautyBelle]

She's a teacher and she read the words "support staff" as "all staff"?

It sounds like the chocolates being taken wouldn't have been a big deal but you said they have a history of doing things like that and there had been ill will building up between the two groups. Thus the note. So...

I think her reaction reinforces why there is a divide. She took the chocolates, and got reprimanded by a "lesser" rank person in public. I see why she's mad about it, usually the saying is "praise in public, reprimand in private." But you didn't know who did it, so you couldn't do that.

A bigger person would have met your note with humility, I did make a mistake in taking their chocolates and with all the hostility going on between us, I can see why they got upset. I will apologize and explain that I didn't read the card properly and I'll replace the chocolates (with genuine good will).

The ongoing history of the lack of humility and respect on the part of the teaching staff caused the lack of respect and the public reprimand on the part of the support staff. I think that's what happened going by your post.

If you hadn't written the note, the teaching staff would likely just continue their behavior so I'm not sure what other choice you had if you wanted them to stop.

You could have overlooked what she did and not written the note, which is the way I would have handled it. But then the hostilities continue to simmer and that's not good either.

But you know what, I bet she doesn't take the chocolates again! haha!

[Leelu6]

Wickedtricksyfalse

gone back to reading the mound of essays about Byron and the politics of disembodiment

Is the implication that the support assistants are too thick to understand Byron and the politics of disembodiment?

OP sounds much more learned than you.

[clam]

It pisses me off when fellow teachers try to pull the "we're too busy/important for this shit. Ffs, we've got stories to mark" nonsense.

It's bollocks. Basic good manners dictate that you don't open gifts addressed to other people, end of.