To shout at this dog-owner?

[AnotherNC]

Surely if your dog jumps up at strangers it should be on a lead?!

Walking in park, 4-month-old baby in baby-carrier (with his feet dangling in furry bootees) a Westie started jumping up at me, scrabbling at my leg and making grabs at baby's foot when he jumped! I yelled at dog to 'get down then shouted at owner to 'get your dog under control' (she responded with a cheery sorry!)

Did I overreact? I wouldn't care so much had I not had baby strapped to me. I get it that baby's bootees might look like toys but I don't want a dog tugging on them or getting mud/slobber everywhere. And I don't want dogs running round my feet particularly when ground is slippery.

Why can't people keep dogs on leads?? It's not the first time random dogs have jumped up in the park.

You cannot teach all children in the way icey describes.

No of course not. But assuming the child has no SN some parents do more harm than good. I'm sure they're well intentioned though.

Why not honking?
Have you ever tried?

What you have described requires a certain level of impulse control and understanding which some children don't have.

Of course there will be exceptions like sns but even then that doesn't excuse the parents reactions!
Children are not born afraid of dogs either an incident occurs which is badly handled or parents general attitudes towards dogs are the cause . Yes some kids are more wary than others which makes it even more important that they are taught how to behave and shown that they don't have to be scared.

I think phobias are more complex than that.

I agree with some points icey made.
I wish when i'd started showing signs of being scared of spiders that my parents had shown me them, how to pick them up etc i know not the same as dogs, its just i may not be as terrified by them as i am now!

Kali me too, I have a spider phobia!!!

I used to have a dog phobia as a small kid incidentally, parents solved that one by getting a dog.

Just in case non-crazy people are actually interested in the state of dog legislation in the UK:

1. There is currently no national law on where and when you should keep your dog on the lead - not even by a main road. Council's can enact by-laws to say you have to keep your dog on a lead on named roads.
2. Councils currently have the ability to enact dog control orders which tell you where you have to keep your dog on a lead and where it can and cannot go. This is under Anti-Social Behaviour Crime and Policing Act 2014 and The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005.
3. The DDA act was enacted in 1991 and amended in 1997 and 2013. In reality it is a piece of legislation that is not fit for purpose and the government ignored most of the recommendations made by welfare organisations in 2013 which included compulsory insurance, licensing (including education) and dropping BSL. There was ample opportunity to enact stricter rules on ownership then but it didn't happen.

There are currently no plans at DEFRA to look at dog legislation again and I would be very surprised if it happened in this Parliament. With cuts and the exisiting legislation and powers plus the introduction of compulsory microchipping later this year there is no appetite to revisit it. What you could theoretically see is councils being stricter and enacting more DCOs but the Kennel Club has run a very successful mobilisation campaign against these sorts of orders when they have been consulted on. While councils no longer have to consult with the public over them they have been told to consult the Kennel Club which has a large reach.

Most dog owners absolutely infuriate me - on Mumsnet and in RL.

'Oh don't worry he/she won't hurt you she's just saying hello' Fuck off I don't want your dog jumping up at me.

'Oh I know you don't like dogs, I'll keep her/him in the garden/back room' 10 minutes later it wanders into the room (this always happens - owners just don't understand that you are not comfortable around dogs. And no I don't have to visit and no I don't anymore)

'He won't bite' Sorry but you absolutely do not know that for sure

'He's great around kids' Sorry but you absolutely do not know that for sure

'Oh I'm so sorry he's never nipped anyone before!' Well he just did (HUGE Alsatian quite recently - didn't hurt but scared me) and I don't believe you

I have had a rottweiler race towards me across a park with the owners screaming his name hysterically, clearly having no control and I literally dived over a fence (that one is quite funnily looking back but I was petrified at the time ). And lots of other horrible experiences in open spaces that I don't go to anymore.

Most owners just think their dog is special, everyone will grow to love their dog, because they do. Their dog won't react unpredictably.

I have zero faith in dog owners, hence my fear.

Oh Throwingshade you can say that about any group.

Parents:"Oh he's just boisterous" as child steals toys from others and pushes them over

Driver: "Oh my god! I've never had an accident before!" after smashing another car off the road because they were too busy with the radio to watch the road

Cat owner: "She's normally so docile!" cat scratches someone

It goes on and on. I'm sorry you had bad experience but that does not make most dog owners incapable or useless.

If you came to my parents house and wished to avoid the dog, he WOULD stay in the kitchen the whole time. Because the door would be shut.

I'm pretty certain that unless you were a tall man, wearing a hat and carrying a stick (which is the very specific group of humans that terrifies him) AND attacking my mum he would never, ever bite you. He literally couldn't bring himself to and would be more likely to hide from you if you were behaving aggressively.

He is not "great around kids" he's not particularly interested in them, but if asked to he will stand still, be stroked and may be convinced to wag his tail and sit and give a paw if there is a biscuit in it for him. Of course I cannot promise he would never ever get annoyed with a child, if for example they physically hurt him, screamed in his ear, attacked his humans, because frankly I'd be bloody annoyed with them too.

My sister has just got a puppy. They visited at Christmas with the dog.
My toddler is now terrified of it.
The dog has a habit of trying to nip people on the hand. Apparently she is "just playing" and wont hurt, but I was told I could give the dog a firm NO if I didn't like it.
That's all well and good, but not for my toddler who the dog took a strong interest in. He didn't mind at first, but the dog took to trying to nip his hands. My toddler is not talking yet and was immediately terrified. Dh and I were doing our best to keep an eye on him all of the time, but I was doing the cooking and it was all very busy. In the end my son got badly scratched by the dogs teeth as he tried to pull his hands away and the dog didn't like it.
Cue my sister saying "Oh he'd have been fine if he'd just sat still."
He's a toddler! The dog clearly isn't safe around young children but she would not accept it. Boy was I glad when they left.

Dolly I am very glad neither you or your DD were hurt by what sounds like a very scary dog. However, it is important to note that the concern with kicking is not primarily because it is cruel but because it is at best ineffective and may even make things worse. Kicking a dog gives them your leg to catch onto. When a dog runs up to you barking look down, fold your arms and turn your back on it. Screaming, running and kicking are likely to make things worse for you.

Seryph

Ha, yes true about some of your analogies.

I do know really it's not all dog owners, but if you have come a cropper with even 6 or 7 owners, it stands to reason you learn not to trust any. And I don't trust any.

I really don't think being attacked by a cat can compare at all with being attacked by a dog.

Plus, when you say you can't guarantee what a dog will do around a screaming child, that is my point! Of course a child shouldn't poke or scream at or grab a dog but they might do even with vigilant parents looking away (or even being right there) for a second. Then...what? It's ok or justified as the kid was being a brat? Surely if there is any doubt whatsover that a dog could go for a child, the child should come first and that is why all dogs should be banned and the world would be a better place.

Cigars the clue is in puppy though! Puppies (like kids) are not immediately aware of right and wrong. Lots of puppies are a bit mouthy. Your sister needs to do some training with the pup but it was very foolish of you both to allow your son near the puppy!
This is totally the type of thing I was talking about earlier. You put your child in that situation and he is now scared had you not have done he would not now be afraid of the dog!

Cigars I have a puppy myself and I don't think it's possible for a puppy to not nip. This is part of their teething process, and not an indication of aggression.

That said, it must have been very frustrating for you - a puppy could very easily hurt a toddler with their nipping. I think it would be very unwise to have a puppy and small child at the same time - mine are certainly ond enough to defend themselves and set the puppy straight.

Booboo I'm honestly not trying to be goady and please understand this question comes from a place of genuine fear (and anger I admit):

Why should people have to learn how to deal with an attacking dog?! Why should we learn to 'turn our backs and show no fear'? Why are there dogs allowed to run up to people, jump up, bark or attack? Why aren't they on a lead or trained better or not bloody taken to places with people if they are unpredictable or nervous around people? How do you show no fear when you are terrified and your instinct is to run?

Throwingshade I'm a (new) dog owner and I totally agree with your sentiment, I think people who don't like dogs are entitled to a dog-free space. And if you came to my house, we'd go in a dog-free room (easily done - we have gates).

I hate cats, don't want them around me; hate cigarette smoke, don't want it around me; I understand.

I live near a large park and one of my joys is to walk in it and enjoy seeing dogs being taken for walks, running around off their leads and having fun. I get jumped at regularly and don't mind though might not be so keen if teeth were involved in the welcome. I would be very saddened to see parks made dog free, there are plenty of places to walk where dogs are not allowed, maybe some would do best to stick to those.

Have to say I completely agree with Andrewofgg and Cruikshank. I grew up with dogs and, frankly, I think they're a bit crap as far as pets go. They are a nuisance in public places and they stink, the smell clings to wherever they've been and whoever they've been near. In fact, if it was down to me, it would be illegal to own one unless it was a certified assistance or therapy animal.

Icey, you must live in a boring town if someone crossing the road to avoid a dog amuses you and your neighbours for weeks . And as for the comment upthread about not walking in muddy parks if you don't want some ... creature ... jumping on you, words fail me. I pay council tax for that park and don't expect some bloody, disgusting beast to come near me and my clean clothes so keep the damn thing on a lead at all times, no exceptions. I find it hard to believe there is a majority of "responsible" owners who pick up the faeces as well, not when I'm slaloming down the road with my little girl, trying to avoid the deposits left every 5 yards or so - and I live in a fairly middle class area so don't blame the stereotypical council estate Staffy owner who people love to look down on.

Generally, people don't bother others with their pets (cats keep out of sight usually and when was the last time you saw someone walking their tarantula?) so why do dog owners get a free pass?

Apple

Yes my mum hates cats, we have one. I am 100% respectful, even when my sons or dh make a joke of it. I know exactly how she feels and remove him from the room or house at all times and don't make light of it. I have literally tackled the poor creature if I've seen him go anywhere near her.

So mutual respect and understanding is what it's about

These threads are so fucking annoying. They always go the same way. In future when someone posts a dog AIBU MNHQ should simply post the following transcript:

Reasonable person: Yes of course dog owners should keep aggressive or dogs with poor recall on leads, however I do recognise that wide open green spaces are for everyone, animals included, and not just myself and my DC, so if a dog comes within six feet of my DC and said DC starts screaming, I do recognise that is my issue and not owners provided dog is showing no interest in her whatsoever.

Nutcase: WAAAAH. WAAAH. I HATE DOGS. I HATE CATS. THEY WILL KILL YOUR TODDLERS.

Nutcase: WAAAAH. WAAAAH. MY DOG SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO WHATEVER IT WANTS.

Seriously. FFS.

FWIW, I love animals. I am always utterly when people say 'I hate all dogs' or 'I hate all cats'. Do you? Do you really? You've met every last one of them in order to make that judgement?

It's like me saying I hate everyone who sends their small DC to private school (hey! i just don't want them near me!) or all tourists on the grounds that they get in my way (hey! I just don't want them near me!).

Bloody stupid. Dog owners, keep your dog on a lead if it's unpredictable and don't be a dick about it. Dog haters, realise that you may sometimes be within fairly close proximity of a dog and learn to cope with it. Also recognise that your risk of getting hit by a car is a lot, lot higher than getting mauled by a dog, most of whom couldn't give a rat's arse about you and probably just think you look fun to sniff momentarily before running off because they got distracted by a stick/cloud/interesting noise.

I would not remove my pet from a room in its own house on the grounds that someone who came to visit merely didn't like it, how completely ridiculous. Obviously if they are phobic or allergic that is different. But I wouldn't shut my old, sick dog or my cats in the other room on the ground that someone might find them a bit distasteful. I find little children with sticky hands distasteful, but I don't insist my friends lock them in another room when I come to visit

Throwingshades why should you learn how to safely overtake horses? Because there are horses. I an ideal world all horses would be utterly bombproof and would never react to anything but as this is a less than ideal world it is wise if your knowledge and behaviour adapts to that. Of course people should teach their dogs not to jump up and have a good recall or have them on a lead but some people won't do either or some leads will break or some dogs will jump out of well fenced gardens or whatever.

Cars should stop at pedestrian crossings, there is no question about that, but as a pedestrian you'd be very unwise to cross without first looking. Car drivers don't always do what they should. Dog owners don't always do what they should. You still want to minimise the chance that you will get run over or bitten.

I appreciate showing no fear when you are terrified may not be possible, but I didn't say anything about that. If a person has such an overwhelming phobia of dogs that they cannot control themselves and have to run away from dogs screaming, it would be wise, for their safety, to seek some professional help.

"wide open green spaces are for everyone animals included" maybebabybee? Does that include wolves, lions, tigers, jackals? Where draw the line?

You find kids with sticky hands distasteful you're tired of LIFE. Just equating flea bags with children illustrates how warped you are.