Really angry about the queue for the loo today.

[Harriedharriet]

Was in a museum with dds today. They needed the loo so off we went. They are quite young, 7 & 8 yrs approx. The queue for the ladies was very long and very slow. No queue for the men's. They sauntered in and, a few minutes later sauntered out. All the men looked relaxed and at ease. All the women looked uncomfortable and ill at ease. We waited at least 20 minutes to get in. There were elderly women, pregnant women, women who looked drained, fatigued or just down right impatient.
Why do we have the same amount of space as men? Our biology is different. We need more space and more time. We menstruate. We reproduce the human race. And we bloody stand in a queue like cattle to attend to basic human needs.
Any architects out there? Why does this happen? It really is an outrage. I have spent so much of my life waiting for the loo in public spaces. Now to see my dds subjected to it really made my blood boil.
Anyone else?
Rant over, thanks for reading.

Sorry but ive had to wait to hundreds and hundreds of times waiting for similar age women to me no kids etc take 10 minutes im done in less than a minute and that includes when ive got my 21 month ds

Who designs womens' clothes?

As for designing buildings, I think the thousands of women working in property development, architecture and engineering might just have some influence. Why would people who create places like Westfield and Bluewater not choose to encourage women exactly?

OP I completely agree with your point. And am surprised more people on this thread don't. Thought they would.

A man using a urinal is a lot faster than a woman using a loo. And MaryZ is spot on about women's loos being used a lot for children too. Which can involve pushchairs, which slows everything down a bit more.

When out with my husband it makes me cross to have to queue invariably when he does not.

The comments that women take too long are out of order. Someone could be emptying a colostomy bag or something.

Yes we've already discussed that. We are speaking in general terms and as far as I'm aware it's still a small percentage of the population that would have health issues and that these would most likely also be present on the male population too.

Even taking that and periods into account I still believe the wait is disproportionate with men vs women.

Another option:

www.traveloutdoors.co.uk/she-pee/

If all women had one of these in their handbags they could go into men's toilets and use the urinals. Or several women could share a cubicle and pee simultaneously. I remember doing this at primary school and it was never a problem.

There we go - a bit of practical thinking - problem solved!

If most men use the urinal rather than the stall and you have a lot of urinals because they take up less space then you are "processing" men at a much more efficient. It is an excellent design.
Ours? Not so much.

I think a pp suggested unisex stalls. If everyone has to wait the same length of time then it is fair.

^ people then complain^ Harriet.

LORD - good questions. Most designers for women's clothes are men. Quick search says that only 17% registered AIA (American institute architecture) members are female. Seems it is a very sexist industry. Have been looking since starting this thread. Two women have received the Pulizer for Architecture in HISTORY. So it would seem that we have an institutional problem here rather than inefficient women.
This has been a disheartening thread I must say.

As for designing buildings, I think the thousands of women working in property development, architecture and engineering might just have some influence.

Women are still very much in the minority in all these fields.

I've noticed female loos here have more basin/mirror space than actual loos!

You're right. We do need more space to use the loo so its not a daft suggestion for architects to include more female loos. Add to that more loos that are big enough for you to take a pushchair in/door opens outwards rather than in. Those are ace.

Also loos with small basins in so you can wash your hands privately. Need not take up more room. Some fit straight ontop of the cistern and save water but there have been times I've need to clean my hands and/or self properly.

I do wonder if there is a way to improve loo design so its efficient because not only do we queue to pee there's always a big queue to wash hands after. Current design sees loos around a room and basins in the middle which really isn't good for moving people along! mens loos have the space to get them in and out quicker iyswim.

I would love to know how many hours of a woman's life is spent waiting for the loo?😀 Really though! They know how much we spend in traffic, in bed, having sex. Anyone got any numbers?

Women in toilets are sometimes having to deal with period leaks and trying to clean themselves up, something men dont have to deal with. With periods, women actually go to the toilet more than men and are more likely to take children in. They need more toilets than men.

In NZ many toilet/shower blocks are unisex. I had noticed the double/treble flush and thank pp for one explanation. If I am queuing and hear a real snorter being let rip and the door opens before the flush finishes I expect to see a man. There may be remaining floaters and the air thick with fumes of incompletely digested curry and beer. But if after a little squeak this is a flush, pause until the end of flush, another pause, second flush, another pause: the door will be opened by a woman and the loo will be spotless and any detectable fumes come from the trap next door.

Just an observation.

The problem is existing buildings, isn't it? New build can be better designed.

"Use the men's" is not an answer where the men's have urinals on the way to the stalls which is the usual layout. Tell me if you like that ther are too many spaces exclusively for men; but don't tell me that the loo where I am urinating is one of them. It's not.

Andrew - I am not saying there is too much for men. I am saying there is not enough for women. Biology and all that!
Old building can be modified by the way. I think it is less to do with old buildings and more to do with old thinking.

Some buildings can; some can't. Just like some can't be made accessible.

YANBU op, and agree with SBG/Ben Elton's observation.

I'm really surprised by the tone of this thread. It's not a contest to see who who can piss the fastest. Some will be slower than others, for many reasons: mobility issues, small kids in tow, changing pass/tampons, urinary hesitancy. Men can experience some of these (although v rare to see men taking kids to the loo) but you can fit more urinals than cubicles in a given space. Urinals also involve less (un)dressing. I always take my coat off in public loos so it doesn't touch the seat/sanitary waste bin and clean the seat before I sit down. That adds another 30 seconds.

As for use of tech etc being the cause of long queues- this is hardly a new phenomenon. Long queues at the ladies definitely pre-dates the iPhone/spanx/moon cups etc.

It's weird how mysogynistic women can be sometimes.

Jeez. The sexism on this thread is woeful. There's a problem, so lets blame the women and get them to change the way they behave in order to fix it. Sounds just like the diversity guys thinking they can up the women in the boardroom by trying to train them to behave more like men.

Who gives a fuck about the reasons why women take longer? They do. Fact. Doesn't matter if you are one of the quick ones, or one of the slow ones. You are still standing in the same queue. The fact that the act of just entering, closing and locking the door of the cubicle is lengthier than the act of unzipping a fly whilst standing at a urinal means that women cannot ever be as fast as men. End of.

You dont solve this be wringing your hands and debating about where the fault lies. And you don't solve it by building unisex loos where the women have the joy of wiping men's piss off the seats (my favourite part of long haul flights). You solve it by demanding loads more female cubicles proportional to mens facilities. And by insisting this be a legal requirement in new public space builds.

So toilet queues exist in order to force women to be SAHMs? That sounds... plausible.

Maybe let's put down the crazy conspiracy kool aid for a second. Let's theorize that instead of deliberate anti-women malice (SGB's response to every issue), it's just more likely that nobody realized the lines at women's toilets were long because most of the architects were men. If that's the case, we'd expect that once people realized that women take longer to use the bathroom, people would start to correct the imbalance.

Has anyone done that? Actually, YES. Lots of legislation and effort to change it and new construction standards mandate more toilets for women than men.

www.csmonitor.com/2006/0119/p16s01-lihc.html

www.citylab.com/politics/2014/11/the-lack-of-equal-bathroom-access-for-women-is-a-global-design-flaw/382418/

But guess what: buildings last a long time. They are also expensive to change. So obviously, you'd expect some time lag and there is.

So toilet queues exist in order to force women to be SAHMs? That sounds... plausible.

Maybe let's put down the crazy conspiracy kool aid for a second. Let's theorize that instead of deliberate anti-women malice (SGB's response to every issue), it's just more likely that nobody realized the lines at women's toilets were long because most of the architects were men. If that's the case, we'd expect that once people realized that women take longer to use the bathroom, people would start to correct the imbalance.

Has anyone done that? Actually, YES. Lots of legislation and effort to change it and new construction standards mandate more toilets for women than men.

www.csmonitor.com/2006/0119/p16s01-lihc.html

www.citylab.com/politics/2014/11/the-lack-of-equal-bathroom-access-for-women-is-a-global-design-flaw/382418/

But guess what: buildings last a long time. They are also expensive to change. So obviously, you'd expect some time lag and there is.

Not sure why the is in your comment, but delighed to see that the very article that you linked to explained exactly why the lack of female toilets is evidence of widespread sex discrimination.

Twenty years ago, the city office of the firm I worked in (huge company, biggest financial services firm of its type in UK until taken over) had three sets of loos. Men, women and directors. Just to be clear, the directors lavatories were not unisex.

I'm not in the business of seeking out conspiracy theories. I'm too busy being an insomniac and MNing. Admittedly I'm giving anecdotal evidence but women have had their place marked out for them in society forever - even the toilets are designed to make sure we don't get ideas above our station in the workplace. One might question why there were there no female architects in the first place to question the inadequate toilet provision?

I'm not sure how a Christian Science magazine relates to building/sanitation regulations but I've done some digging and in the UK, the applicable standard is British Standard 6465-1:2006 Sanitary Installations. The pp will be pleased to see that it does require more female toilet facilities but I don't think the BS is required in listed buildings (I haven't read the whole thing).

Still, they needn't bother when collective Mn wisdom is just to piss faster