Really angry about the queue for the loo today.

[Harriedharriet]

Was in a museum with dds today. They needed the loo so off we went. They are quite young, 7 & 8 yrs approx. The queue for the ladies was very long and very slow. No queue for the men's. They sauntered in and, a few minutes later sauntered out. All the men looked relaxed and at ease. All the women looked uncomfortable and ill at ease. We waited at least 20 minutes to get in. There were elderly women, pregnant women, women who looked drained, fatigued or just down right impatient.
Why do we have the same amount of space as men? Our biology is different. We need more space and more time. We menstruate. We reproduce the human race. And we bloody stand in a queue like cattle to attend to basic human needs.
Any architects out there? Why does this happen? It really is an outrage. I have spent so much of my life waiting for the loo in public spaces. Now to see my dds subjected to it really made my blood boil.
Anyone else?
Rant over, thanks for reading.

There may well be men with health issues, but these things are more likely to happen to women (ms, example given above, is much more prevelant in women). Women live to an older age and a lot of even perfectly healthy women have to deal with continence issues after pregnancy.

And thats without adding periods and pregnant women and all the children being taken in by mum. All those cases where there arent even baby changing facilities in the mens, for eg.

Plus biological differences, women have smaller bodies, therefore smaller bladders. Women have shorter uretheras so are more likely to get bladder infections, especially when sexually active and/or after menopause.

So no op, yanbu (and i dont even use the ladies so i'm not arguing on behalf of myself)

Unisex toilets don't work though because men just assume they're mens.

I walked in some the the other day and a man was standing at the toilet without the cubicle door shut and he was pretty shocked to see me!

Then, as I was leaving another man came in already unzipping, stopped when he saw me and said "oh is this the ladies?" No, it's unisex, it's got a great big bloody unisex sign on the door you idiot! I didn't assume it was women's so why would you assume it was mens?

One other thing, its cumulative. Even if it only takes women 10 second longer to pee than men, you only need six women in front of you and you are waiting a minute longer than a man in the same 'place' in the queue.

Women should have more toilets but also some women should stop faffing around in there. A friend was telling me how she lays loo roll over all the edges so her skin doesn't touch it when she sits. I noticed another had posted something on FB while I was waiting for her. I appreciate it's a tiny minority who would do this but it's enough to slow the queue and I doubt many men do it.

Dealing with your period takes way longer than a man weeing at a urinal. I would have thought about one sixth of pre menopausal women are on their period at any one time. And incontinence in post menopausal women is way more common than men of the same age, and also takes longer to deal with. Simple biology.

In my very limited experience unisex toilets are fine. These were however doors off a corridor so it was fairly obvious. Maybe that makes a difference

Maybe a bit of education for men on how to use them?

For all those saying "women" are slow...compared to what? Other women?

I will re iterate for those that missed it.. I am an awesomely fast wee-er if given the chance to get in a cubicle

I don't believe that women take longer than they NEED to.

Firstly, how can anyone put an acceptable length of time on a piss? Secondly, do you think many women honestly decide to make the most of the time they spent queuing, and so sit on the loo for longer than necessary? Public toilets are functional at best, smelly at worst. They aren't places I go to for a nice sit down.

I also read an article on this issue some time ago which said that, physiologically speaking, women take longer to void their bladders than men. So even when you discount the "faffing" and texting and handbags and clothing and make up application - women still need more time than a man who merely whips his tackle out (before he's even reached the urinal by the sound of it) pisses and leaves.

I remember having a flood of period blood whilst out for the day. I was one of those women in a toilet cubicle for ages while there was a big queue. I was desperately trying to clean myself as much as I could.

There used to be an observable phenomenon in the days when people used phone boxes. Studies showed that Phone calls took slightly longer on average to complete their call if there was someone waiting outside to use the phone - the person in the box would be more likely to use all their allotted time rather than hanging up when they'd said what they needed. It probably says something about human behaviour.

I suspect that there might be something similar going on with the time taken by those who had to wait in a queue to get into the cubicle. Maybe it has already been measured by psychologists or sociologists?

Women also more likely to have ibs.

Not sure how relevant this is but I have been told that it is unusual in public gents for men to use the cubicles. Even that it is considered odd if someone does go in.
I don't know if men generally have a greater phobia of poo'ing in public toilets than women? If they do then the gents are pretty much just for wees, whereas the ladies are for wees, poos and period-related shenanigans (and groups of young girls messing about taking selfies etc)

I am quite disturbed by the women-blaming at the start of this thread.

For many women giving birth means incontinence/leakage or just not being able to go so long without weeing as many men who haven't given birth! I used to have a cast iron bladder as a young woman, I now need to wee approximately twice as often as my husband. Silly weak me with my weak bladder.

Men and women who are older might need to wee more, men because of prostate problems, women because of the menopause (which means the muscles go more slack as hormones decline). But men can still go in and use the urinal and get out much more quickly. Most don't wash their hands, I don't see this as a good thing.

I can't get over we are being berated for being too slow in dealing with bodily functions!

When I've been at the theatre or after the cinema finishes, there's usually a queue. I have never noticed anyone taking a huge amount of time, usually they are in and out pretty quickly, I don't think there's any faffing or any make-up putting on (that's done outside the cubicle). It's pressure of numbers!

It is something that confuses me.

I often wonder if there's some sort of underwear I don't know about.

Here we go. Normal flow rate in age 14-45

Male - 21ml/sec
Female - 18ml/sec

But no, its handbags and iphones and make up. Silly women.

I think the complaint that women should hurry up is a red herring. Yes, SOME women faff. And faffing in the cubicle based set up does hold up the throughput of users much more than at the urinal, any man faffing at a urinal will probably get barged out of the way, or at least enough disapproval not to do it too often.

The fact is to avoid queuing you do need to design double the number of women's loos as men's.

Women's Cubicles are also just not designed for the way in which they are actually used, they are far too small. So many have very obviously no thought given to the fact that a sanitary bin is needed. nevermind the fact that many women are more likely to take small kids in with them than men.

We need to design for things as they really are, not how we imagine we'd like them to be.

I work in the construction industry, I know 2 female architects, the rest are white middle aged men.

Men don't have to remove any items of clothing to have a piss on the whole. Women do. Or course they take longer

I agree with you entirely OP. I went to a very popular attraction last week and the brand new men's loo facility is the same size as the women's. So of course, even though are now masses of loos, there is still a queue for the ladies (albeit a smallish one)

According to DH, men think public loos are filthy and try to limit their time in there as much as possible whilst attempting to touch nothing at all (including the taps).

Yes, there are usually far longer queues for women's loos, so yes, it makes no sense to have the same size space for men and women. Unless you think it's easier to change human nature / biology than to create a practical design, obviously.

Let's say one toilet takes up the space of two urinals - then obviously the gents' should take up less space than ladies' loos of the same capacity, even assuming that men and women need to pee just as frequently. But so many places have a simple design with the ladies' to the left and the gents' to the right, all symmetrical. That's just laziness.

Now I'm off to flagellate myself for not getting my pelvic floor in better shape.

I was in Newnham College the other day (college designed for women only). Several male guests had been invited to a dinner, and of course, there are only so many men's loos. We ended up standing in a queue in the corridor as the men stood in the queue on the other side. All the women chatted, waited patiently, as usual.

The men stood looking increasingly uncomfortable, and finally angry. A few women tried to strike up polite conversation; they mostly ignored it.

I very much enjoyed watching it dawn on them that this is what women usually put up with, and how irritating it is.

I also discovered that, in a building designed by a Victorian architect for women, men's loos are rather small and low down - so all of these hulking, broad, 6' plus men were coming out looking even more irritated and cramped. Rather the way I feel when I've tried to wee while kicking the sanitary bin jammed up against my legs.

Geneva airport is terrible for this. 30 min queue for the loo no problem. I marched dd into the men's once, apologised to all the blokes at the urinal went to the cubicles and they were all locked (empty)! Ive no idea why, we slunk out again.

Who - I wonder why the cubicles were locked?

that in turn makes me wonder, how would women feel if those men had come into the women's to use cubicles?

That's really interesting Jeanne, because I was just about to wonder what men would do if they started having to queue for ages for the toilets when out in public.

Because I'm pretty certain that some men would be so outraged, and so unwilling to wait, they would head outside whichever venue it is and piss in the gutters/up the walls. They would

Some women take ages due to disability or other legitimate reasons but others, frankly, faff and piss about unnecessarily - the list posted upthread by Dollymixture is spot on.

People have mentioned observing people using their phones while in there - totally selfish and unnecessary while there is a queue.

Last year I went to see Caitlin Moran's live show. Unsurprisingly, the audience was about 95% women. When we all went to the toilet at the interval, we used both the gents and ladies and there was still a queue.

I use the men's loos in these instances. The men never seem to mind and even have some comment 'dont blame you!'