To wonder what your views are on 'working class' accents

[Timri]

And think people need to learn the difference between the words correct and standard
Inspired by a comment by somebody saying they didn't look down on anybody's accent, but hated words being pronounced 'incorrectly' such as 'bovvered'.
Uhm, it's called th fronting and it's one of the central features of a cockney accent FFS.
Please tell me I'm not alone in this?

I think words, grammar and accent are all part of the dialect actually, so they way you actually pronounce a word would be the accent, and the accent would make up part of the dialect, along with the other parts?
I don't actually know when the point is that it changes from a dialect of the English language to another language though?
That's pretty interesting.
A pp mentioned patois, which from my understanding is mainly English words, but a lot of words from other languages as well, and they have their own grammar which differs from standard English.
So is it classed as an English dialect, or a seperate language? Hmmm

It's the strength of the accent that I think denotes your class more often light end by going to university. I have a Lancashire accent but it is relatively light. I have lots of friends from Liverpool that I would consider middle class - they have lovely light musical Liverpool accents. Northerners seem to get the most stick but I find a lot of southern accents quite grating actually especially strong winy accents from places like Southampton Slough, Swindon etc ( those places come to mind because I went to uni in that general vicinity and knew people from those areas. I went back to visit friends down south for a bit and dh found my accent annoying when I got back as I had started mimicking the way they go up at the end of sentences.

I love regional accents - my dad was working class Weegie, but I'm a Manc. I can understand almost all Scots accents - Shetland still stumps me - but don't dare try to reproduce them.

I don't think there is 'correct' or 'incorrect' any more, but you are at a disadvantage in career mobility terms if no-one outside your home area can understand you. Many people who have 'professional' careers have an aquired neutral voice as well as their natural speech. Including my dad.

I'd love to know how accents developed.

Fascinating thread! The way you speak is so tied up with class. I'm from the Midlands originally but lived in London for over 20 years. Moved back to the Midlands recently and people often assumed I went to public school as I don't have a local accent! In fact went to a comprehensive but have quite a ( actually I don't know how to describe it, I want to say 'normal' but that's not right, is it? I sound like Holly Willerby I guess!) accent. At Uni there were lots of posh Londoners who I felt looked down on me so I definitely changed my accent to fit in more. I do have trouble with my 'a's, never know whether to say class or clarss...!!

holly I read that a lot of it is to do with how England and Scotland were settled by lots of different invaders. So the far North of Scotland and the Lake District were colonized by Vikings. East Anglia was invaded and settled by people from the Low Countries. Each group brought their own language. Then the Normans came in 1066 (who were also Vikings!) creating a situation where the nobility spoke differently from the general population. And because travel was very difficult, languages/accents remained very diverse until the railways were invented.

I hope a real linguist can come and give a more accurate version!

PS Have you seen Brave? Young McGuffin is speaking an authentic Doric accent, from Elgin, Scotland which is Kevin McKidd's home town. It's the one Scottish accent (dialect) that I still find utterly impenetrable.

The only uk accents I've had any trouble understanding are the Scottish ones that are on that fishing show. They have to put subtitles on it, so at least I know I'm not alone.

I come from Berkshire ( very home counties) went to school in Wiltshire and now live in Cornwall so much to my Mum's horor I have a west country accent.
Mother is from good stock ( apparently) and sent me off to boarding school at 11. She now lives in Africa with her new husband and is very disappointed in me for speaking like a ruffian

They film that from Peterhead and Fraserburgh, don't they? That's the same accent. I tried dating a guy from up there, it was a good job he was fit as fuck because I had no idea what he was talking about.

Is it the same one? I haven't seen Brave, but flipping hell, if we can't understand it fuck knows how an international audience will manage!
But good on them for putting it in there, rather than just the easier to understand accents.

Are we talking Adele levels of common?

Or someone pretending to also a Scottish accent.

Frankly all northern accents blend into one, anyone got an example of a posh northern accent? Obviously there are some.

Orda 'Adele levels of common'
I don't know why people pick apart her talking voice

Because it sounds like nails on a blackboard.

redannie exactly!

Her accent or her actual voice?

Orda maybe that depends where you're from. I think all southern accents sound the same (posh, Cornwall or londaaaaan) but can tell northern ones apart.

How Northern are you going, Orda? There's a very posh Scottish accent - if you've ever heard Sir Menzies Campbell speaking, he's a good example of it.

Timri that was the joke - Pixar asked McKidd to do a kind of fake made-up Scottish accent for the character, and he said no, I'll just talk like they do where I come from. I think it's brilliant that Pixar went for it.

Her voice, I've never heard anyone speak like it in real life.

Tali There's much less variation in southern accents. I mean someone is Essex and someone in Surrey can sound the same but probably not true of Newcastle and Liverpool!

Imust, I meant northern England, strangely I've always thought Scottish accents to be quite posh!