To wonder what your views are on 'working class' accents

[Timri]

And think people need to learn the difference between the words correct and standard
Inspired by a comment by somebody saying they didn't look down on anybody's accent, but hated words being pronounced 'incorrectly' such as 'bovvered'.
Uhm, it's called th fronting and it's one of the central features of a cockney accent FFS.
Please tell me I'm not alone in this?

[theycallmemellojello]

Mellojello you are making an assumption here - that workmen are automatically a lower class than the lawyers in your office. I always thought that those in the legal profession were taught never to make assumptions...


Err, ok. Well, yes, I am making assumptions about the builders as I don't know anything about their backgrounds. Perhaps they're all the sons of baronets who've been to Eton. But actually, I reckon that they do have quite different backgrounds from most of the barristers in my set, who are almost universally privately educated (and from well known public schools too) and Oxbridge alumni and who are all high earners, who all adhere to the usual posh stereotypes in taste and dress. I don't say this approvingly, my workplace has a shocking lack of social diversity. And I'm certainly not claiming that I think that posh people are better. But it's just ridiculous to claim that there is no such thing as class, or that class does not often affect what path your life takes, or class has no relation to speech.

[theycallmemellojello]

Werks - that's so interesting!

[Timri]

Summer in which case all non-rhotic accents (which include that golden 'standard') are technically incorrect too!

[Philoslothy]

I have a strong regional accent and also sound working class. My family have never moved away from their home town so their accent has never been diluted. Mine has been slightly softened as I have moved around a lot. I have also spent a lot of time as an adult surrounded by people with "posh" accents and I think you end up sounding like people who mix with however hard you try to keep your authentic accent. My children would probably be seen as quite well spoken.

[BarbaraofSeville]

Builders being working class or not is a social mobility thing isn't it? Would someone educated at Eton become a builder, who knows? They may be more likely to run a construction company and let others get their hands dirty - maybe that is it. Anyone posh/upper middle class is more likely to pay others to do manual work?

You can certainly get working class people who go into middle class jobs, does that stop them being working class? I'm not so sure.

I am one of the few people in my family to go to university and go into a professional job, but it is one that involves visiting lots of heavy industrial sites where they either make stuff (yes we still do that in this country) or knock shit down, so involves dealing with lots of mostly working class people in hard hats and dirty overalls and it quite often seems that I am better received with the people there than my middle class, RP accented colleagues.

[PastaLaFeasta]

I'm a working class northerner with a slightly 'posh' accent, I was picked on at school for it but I couldn't help it, I wondered if it was from watching too much BBC TV as a child because my parents have local accents. It has probably got more middle class/neutral/posh/southern as I went to uni and lived in London (except I don't say Glarse instead of Glass etc which is a give away) and it's served me well at times, I fitted in better in some roles and social groups despite not really being middle class.

I think accent prejudice is getting less as more ordinary people are becoming well educated and doing well in business etc. But I did wonder if accent had an impact on my DH's colleague - he was from down the road from where I grew up but had the accent to match, DH felt he spoke sense and was an able team member with good qualifications, however he was labelled as being aggressive by his internal customers - a team mostly comprised of middle class, private school graduates. And it's not just accent but how things are said, which can be normal in some places but seen as unacceptable to others, this may have played a role as I suspect it also impacted on me when first worked in London. I had to learn to be more sensitive and careful and there was also less banter.

I wonder if posh accents are getting more toned down too though, I work with lots of posh and fairly wealthy people but one younger lady sounds very 'normal' despite the wealthy family.

[derxa]

it's called th fronting Well I never You actually do learn something everyday. I never heard this description in all the time (five years) I was studying linguistics and phonetics.

[derxa]

For example, you tend to find "sing-song" accents such as Welsh or West Yorkshire in areas that were heavily reliant on the sheep industry: either for the production of lamb or wool. My feeling is that the "sing-song" accent developed as a way to communicate in areas that are fairly hilly hence appropriate for the raising of sheep as the sound carries better in that kind of environment Well I'm a sheep farmer and I don't sound like a sheep.

[Werksallhourz]

derxa ... where on earth did I say anyone sounded like a sheep?

[amarmai]

just another way to feel superior- which actually shows that you are not too secure.

[MrsJayy]

But saying bovvered isnt an accent though its dialect imo i have the same accent but i dip in and out of dialects depending who i am talking to.

[mincepieprivateeye]

Yorkshire accent here, live accents, especially Northern. The only type of accent I dislike is the one that some people use no matter where they are from, the kind of air stewardess making an announcement, every sentence goes up at the end, long drawn out yeeeessss. A mix of them all and I seem to hear it more and more.

[TesticleOfObjectivity]

I was brought up in East London (near Mrs DV perhaps) but I have never spoken like I'm from there. My siblings do though, you wouldn't think we'd been brought up together! I used to have people take the mick out of me but I don't so much now I am older, although I don't live there now. I don't know why I speak the way I do. I used to wish I sounded more like everyone else. A small part of me wishes I do because I think it is interesting whereas I've just got a bit of a nothing accent.

[derxa]

Werks Just wilfully misunderstanding you.

[Timri]

MrsJay I'm pretty sure that accent is the way words are actually pronounced, and dialect is the way the words are put together, so as a pp said, certain phrases that may be grammatically incorrect in Standard English would be acceptable as part of a regional dialect because that would have been the grammar used in that location before there was a 'standard' English.
I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong though.

[TaliZorah]

I find "posh" accents more annoying. Home Cunties really boils my piss.

Love a good northern accent

[redannie118]

Now this is a funny one,im a geordie lass born and bred and my dsd goes to a excellent state school in a rather affluent area of Northumberland. Ive noticed that the vast majority of children who go to her school have no geordie accent at all and actually make fun of her (slight)accent. Now up until this point I thought that everyone in my area spoke with some degree of accent that would obviously become less prominent (but still there)depending on your background,however these children although born and bred in Northumberland all speak with a very "home counties " accent, therefore I cannot draw any other conclusion that yes , indeed class and accent do seem to be very much intertwined

[derxa]

A standard dialect (also known as a standardized dialect or "standard language") is a dialect that is supported by institutions. Such institutional support may include government recognition or designation; presentation as being the "correct" form of a language in schools; published grammars, dictionaries, and textbooks that set forth a correct spoken and written form; and an extensive formal literature that employs that dialect (prose, poetry, non-fiction, etc.). There may be multiple standard dialects associated with a single language. For example, Standard American English, Standard British English, Standard Canadian English, Standard Indian English, Standard Australian English, and Standard Philippine English may all be said to be standard dialects of the English language.

A nonstandard dialect, like a standard dialect, has a complete vocabulary, grammar, and syntax, but is usually not the beneficiary of institutional support. Examples of a nonstandard English dialect are Southern American English, Western Australian English, Scouse and Tyke. The Dialect Test was designed by Joseph Wright to compare different English dialects with each other.
Courtesy of Wikipedia. They are really good at defining linguistic parameters.

[wasonthelist]

I am northern and therefore my accent sounds more 'common' than Home Counties etc

No it fucking does not!

[PurpleGreenAvocado]

I don't dislike working class accents but some regional ones really grate; I loath the Black Country/Birmingham accent when it's incredibly strong - I just can't understand it. It surprises me just how different it is from the accent in Hereford and Worcester area given that they are quite close.

[MrsJayy]

What if your not English? scots have their own words which i mix and match on and like i said before i can dip in out of different ways of speaking depending is that accent or dialect.

[timelytess]

Its my accent, I don't have the will to change it. I only notice it when I'm with posh people, and that isn't very often. I sent my dd to elocution lessons ('Speech and Drama') so that she wouldn't be limited by having a local accent.

[Sameshitdiffname]

People don't half get snobby and uppity about accents on here at times

[wasonthelist]

some regional ones really grate

Estuary RP, to name 2 :)