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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Bible from school

409 replies

user7755 · 14/12/2015 17:51

DS goes to a standard secondary (not a religious school), he came home last week with a bible.

I remember we got them when we were kids but I had forgotten thought we had moved on since then

DS doesn't believe in God, his choice and nothing to do with us. But I'm just really shocked and irritated at this act, presumably an attempt to spread the word and indoctrinate kids into organised religion.

I am very, very anti organised religion right now, following a historical abuse case involving our family which has just been through the court and involved a vicar, so very aware that I'm probably oversensitive.

Is it me? AIBU?

OP posts:
VintageDresses · 14/12/2015 19:08

When Gideons visit schools these they offer Bibles to those children who want one. Ds didn't have it forced on him, he chose to take one.

derxa · 14/12/2015 19:08

Not the Wee Frees mavis Grin

BertrandRussell · 14/12/2015 19:12

As I said. Lots of wide eyed disingenuousness. As usual.

Original poster
user7755 · 14/12/2015 19:12

MsJamieFraser - he doesn't believe in God, never has, even when we used to go to church. He can't understand why anyone would believe in God when we have science. We have had lots of discussions about how it's ok for him to not believe but he needs to understand that other people have a range of beliefs that he needs to respect.

Originalmavis - I don't want to pass this book onto anyone for the reasons I have stated - and normally I wouldn't throw books away.

OopsEEDaisy - Where on earth do you get that I don't like the 10 commandments?! I just don't like one particular religion being promoted in schools because I think it conveys a message that I'm not comfortable with.

OP posts:
sugar21 · 14/12/2015 19:19

Please don't throw a book in the bin even if you don't want it in the house. Give it to the charity shop or hospice.
Your ds will find his own religion or non religion. He may read several books and not want a religion who knows?
I find the Church comforting and it has been a great he!p to me. But hey each to their own, and everyone has a choice which is good.
I should add that I wasn't at all religious until my dd died and I somehow find my faith a comfort.
Yes I know I'm a bit bonkers

BertrandRussell · 14/12/2015 19:22

"Please don't throw a book in the bin even if you don't want it in the house"

Why on earth not?

Original poster
user7755 · 14/12/2015 19:25

Not bonkers at all Sugar21, I'm pleased that you have found comfort in something and as you say, it's your choice and what is right for you. And I'm sorry to hear about your daughter.

I'm genuinely not anti religion, I'm anti indoctrination (and hypocrisy but that's a whhhoooooole other thread! Wink)

OP posts:
VagueIdeas · 14/12/2015 19:32

I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that kids are only taking one because they want one. I can think of all sorts of reasons why they might take one despite not particularly wanting to: out of obligation after this school-sanctioned assembly; out of politeness and not wanting to offend by saying no; because their mates took one so why not?

I bet the Gideons lot don't explicitly say "Please feel free not to take a Bible if you don't want one." There's a difference between that and not saying so and expecting schoolkids to be bold enough to say no themselves.

Windingstreamswithoutends · 14/12/2015 19:36

I'd be absolutely livid. Understanding what the bible is is one thing but handing out works of fiction as if they're real to impressionable children is not on.

Bunbaker · 14/12/2015 19:36

"the person who went to prison was a family member, he went to prison for abusing another family member as well as a number of other children), so I do know about how the bible reads / is interpreted in the protestant faith. I also know how it is used to control people, belittle people and how some Christians are so passionate about it that they try to bring people into that faith"

So why not tar all Christians with the same brush then? You are making some assumptions there. I go to church occasionally and I can assure you no-one gets belittled or controlled. I am not turned away or told off because I don't go every week.

"But I'm just really shocked and irritated at this act, presumably an attempt to spread the word and indoctrinate kids into organised religion."

You're easily shocked. Do you honestly believe that handing out a bible to an 11 year old is going to indoctrinate them into Christianity?

I agree that they shouldn't be handed out though. What a waste of resources.

LittleBeautyBelle · 14/12/2015 19:39

You're upset the school gave him a Bible. That is the tradition and religious culture of the country, you know this, that is the history, look at how many years that history goes back.

You've got bad associations of Christians in your family or in organized religion but don't make the mistake of putting the whole of it, all Christians or the Church, protestant or catholic in this "bad" category. It is not the high ideals of the institution that is at fault, it is the flawed humans within. There's a difference. When those humans take over the institution and it covers up all the bad, like my Catholic church with the sex abuse cases, then yes, a major clearing out is needed!!! Actually, true Christians are enraged by these scandals and hold the enablers just as guilty as the perpetrators and want justice for the victims and prison for the criminal priests and their enablers no matter how far up it goes. So, I understand part of why you don't trust or believe or like organized religion and to you that includes the Bible. I had a bad experience as a child with someone in a position of authority and who was also a "Christian." I'm so glad I could separate at that young age the difference between Christianity and this person who called himself a Christian.

sugar21 · 14/12/2015 19:40

Bertrand Because the charity shop can sell books ( not specifically the Bible) to people that can't afford Waterstones and have had their local library closed down .

Sadik · 14/12/2015 19:47

"From experience, they normally offer the bibles as pupils leave assembly - if the young person doesn't want to take one there is no pressure."

I know in dd's case - because she complained to me about it - they were handed them as they walked out of the room overseen by the Head of Year, so she would have had to explicitly refuse it, rather than simply not taking one. She didn't feel she wanted to make that much of a point, so simply recycled it.

(I think actually her environmental & nationalist radars were offended as much as her atheist one, as she already has a perfectly good Welsh language bible she was given in primary.)

Original poster
user7755 · 14/12/2015 19:54

The issue isn't that I think he will be indoctrinated Bunbaker, or that I am tarring all Christians with the same brush. As I have said many times before, it is the organisation that I have the issue with, not the individual.

I know many Christians who are fantastic people, loving, kind, open, accepting. I know others who are not, sadly it is the latter group who are very heavily involved with the organisation of Christianity. But the detail is probably one for another thread.

From the feedback, I get the sense that most people think I am unreasonable to disagree with the concept (although my feeling is still that if it is being done for one religion is should be for all, unless in a church school) and also that I am unreasonable to get my knickers in a twist about it - which is fair enough!

OP posts:
derxa · 14/12/2015 19:55

I remember when I was a Y6 teacher in a C.of E. school the vicar always gave out Bibles at the end of the school year in Church. A girl who was on the autistic spectrum shouted out, "I don't want a fucking Bible! I want a present!" Grin She was quite right. However the OP's DS accepted the Bible. I can't think of any dire consequences. Just let it go. Give it away.

myotherusernameisbetter · 14/12/2015 19:57

I had a thread about this before OP - I am sick and tired of Christianity or any religion being pushed down my childrens' throats. I specifically mention Christianity because to be fair, they are the only ones trying to do it and being given complete access during school hours to do so.

YANBU.

LynetteScavo · 14/12/2015 19:58

Just stick it on the bookshelf incase you ever need to refer to a bible.

I'd be very surprised if any Y7 had ever been indoctrinated as a result of one of the Gideons free bibles.

myotherusernameisbetter · 14/12/2015 20:01

That is the tradition and religious culture of the country, you know this, that is the history, look at how many years that history goes back.

Yes well, there are lots of things that we did for years and deemed our history, but we know better now. e.g. Burning witches, capital punishment, slavery, child labour etc.

We are a supposedly intelligent race and yet we still live in the dark ages in relation to religion "because it's our history" well maybe try using your brain and moving on....

Orda1 · 14/12/2015 20:03

Religion or not, I find reading certain parts a help in hard times.

He doesn't have to read it so YABU.

Though as previously mentioned I doubt he'd have had it forced on him.

myotherusernameisbetter · 14/12/2015 20:03

It's not about thinking that your child will be indoctrinated, it's the fact that they have access to push any old shite at our children....in school hours...with permission from everyone involved. Thankfully my children have come to their own conclusions.

myotherusernameisbetter · 14/12/2015 20:05

Though as previously mentioned I doubt he'd have had it forced on him.

You know what? is sort of is, they are generally handed out in assembly under the watchful eye of head and teachers and other kids and it would take a particularly strong child to refuse in such circumstance. It's easier for them to take it than not.

Original poster
user7755 · 14/12/2015 20:07

Thats it myothername, it's the principle of it.

I think they'd have to try harder than that to indoctrinate him, he probably doesn't even know that it was a bible!

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 14/12/2015 20:08

Is it a Gideon bible OP?

IME it's the Gideons and not the schools who provide the bibles. I don't know of any other religious /philosophical group that provide free books to all pupils.

Original poster
user7755 · 14/12/2015 20:10

I think so Dione - it's red.

OP posts:
Bunbaker · 14/12/2015 20:12

When they handed out Gideon bibles at DD's school I queried it with the HT. I don't know why schools allow Gideon's to do this as I imagine that 99% of them will end up in the bin.

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