Bible from school

[user7755]

DS goes to a standard secondary (not a religious school), he came home last week with a bible.

I remember we got them when we were kids but I had forgotten thought we had moved on since then

DS doesn't believe in God, his choice and nothing to do with us. But I'm just really shocked and irritated at this act, presumably an attempt to spread the word and indoctrinate kids into organised religion.

I am very, very anti organised religion right now, following a historical abuse case involving our family which has just been through the court and involved a vicar, so very aware that I'm probably oversensitive.

Is it me? AIBU?

There are scientists who are also people of faith. I have provided details of a study that showed this and Wiki have helpfully compiled lists of believing Nobel winners.

So did you not find any believing scientists on that Wiki list? Do you think that scientists lied to the RASIC study?

Big, you quoted a 5% scientist believer figure earlier on the thread. I did query it but maybe you missed it. What do you base it on?

I randomly selected Erwin Schrödinger from the list of nobel prize winners who believe in God - he won it for physics - this is what his belief consisted of:

here is Schrödinger's Proof for the Existence of God:

1. My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the laws of nature (Materialist Assumption).

2, Yet I know by direct and incontrovertible experience that I am directing its motions, of which I correctly foresee the effects.

1. Conclusion: I am the Person who controls the motions of the atoms according to the Law of Nature = I am God.

"So did you not find any believing scientists on that Wiki list? Do you think that scientists lied to the RASIC study?"

I looked at 3 before I ran out of time. One has said categorically that he is not religious. One I couldn't research because I don't read German. And the third has said that he is an agnostic, and. that he is Church of Engand. I suggested that he was intellectually agnostic but culturally Church of England. That was the point at which I suggested you come up with some names to support your statement.

Bert, you quoted John Gurdon saying "I am a Christian of the Church of England". It's a pretty clear statement of belief and denomination from a scientist. Yet word from the horse's mouth isn't enough evidence for you?

There are at least two on the list who have written or made presentations about faith (according to the info provided), maybe you should check them out.

And then come back to the thread with yoyr own "interpretation" of what they might have meant.

Saying you are a christian doesn't infer belief no. Up until recently I would probably have described myself as a protestant or church of Scotland, but the reality is that I haven't believed in the existence of god since I was about 9. I would have been referring to what I was culturally rather than what I actually was. This is probably even more common years ago when it was expected that you belonged to some type of church or religion.

well which ones Dione? Are you being deliberately obtuse and evasive or is this some kind of game that you are playing to keep the atheists busy?

Honestly, if someone came along now and described religion or christianity to you having never encountered it before, you'd be calling for them to be locked up for their own safety.

"Bert, you quoted John Gurdon saying "I am a Christian of the Church of England". It's a pretty clear statement of belief and denomination from a scientist. Yet word from the horse's mouth isn't enough evidence for you?"

Did you read the rest of the quotation I posted?

"There are at least two on the list who have written or made presentations about faith (according to the info provided), maybe you should check them out."

Happy to. Who are they?

Robert Andrews Millikan and Victor Francis Hess.

Big, do you know much about the Discovery Institute?

Most of the well known and reputable studies give the figure of between 35 and 50%. Your figure of 5% is not really credible and The Discovery Institute is certainly not a credible source.

I agree that there are plenty of different studies to chose from, so I am at a loss as to why you sourced an anti-evolutionist think tank.

There are indeed loads of surveys and loads of different results depending on the questions asked (including one where it would be possible to answer "yes" to a question as both an atheist and a theist!). The stats quoted by Discovery are not actually their figures- they are quoting other sources. A little odd that they are quoting figures that go so against their own beliefs......surely that gives credibility to the 5% figure as well? There is also a Cornell study that roughly agrees with it.

Hess and Milikan are both certainly self identified Christians. But life was very different in the late 19th/early 20th century........

The first source quoted is a Creationist pamphlet called Where Darwin Meets the Bible. I had a look at the Cornell source. It has no Cornell logos and does not give the names of those who conducted the survey. It claims to be the result of a survey, responded to by 147 evolutionary biologists. One person responded that they could not take part as they were an anthropologist, not an evolutionary biologist and over a quarter of respondents were anonymous.

A little odd that they are quoting figures that go so against their beliefs...surely that gives credibility to their 5% figure as well.

That depends on how much credibility you give a Creationist Think Tank that has been repeatedly criticised for using data in a misleading sense to promote a religious view point. Even if the Cornell Study is credible, a survey of 147 Evolutionary Biologists is hardly indicative of scientists as a whole.

You, Big and the other anti-religious posters on this thread seem to be not so concerned about actual evidence regarding Scientists and Religion. Prefering instead to offer up a YouTube video and a Creationist Think Tank who agree with previously held beliefs on the topic.

This is Confirmation Bias and is the opposite of forming an opinion based based on the evidence available.

Francis S Collins is a contemporary scientist who has written about his faith. He is not a Nobel Laureate but is the leader of the Human Genome Project.

I agree with you OP. Schools should teach children about the worlds main religions, where they originated, what the main events were. To respect and appreciate other peoples faiths and traditions. Celebrate Christmas, Eid, Diwali make decorations, cook food for..etc etc..

But handing out bibles? No they shouldn't do that. Can you imagine an inner city school handing out copies of the Quoran for children to take home? FFS there'd be news headlines and mass hysteria. Imagine the comments section of the Daily Express???

gideons? Think i got one given at secondary school too. Never read it but think its at my parents. No big deal, just pass on if you dont want it. Noticed on local fb page someone was asking for a bible recently.

I always wonder why people worry so much about their kids being given bibles, what do they think is going to happen?

If all it took to bring a new soul into the outstretched arms of the church was to give them a bible, the Archbishop of Canterbury would be leaping up and down with joy!

They might catch God.