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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that you cannot work full time and support your children's education?

463 replies

IslandGirlie · 13/12/2015 23:25

I've tried to juggle FT work and 2 DCs, they are in Reception & Y1 and failing miserably!
This month I've missed a few school request/ preps for events & kids are having to rush to get things ready for said events. Teachers sending notes to remind things..
I feel like I'm not supporting them in their school work / not spending quality time with them.
Is it possible to be on top this and work full time? School sends at lest 1 email a day! Most days it's two!! There's is always a leaflet in the bag..
DH works full time too and he is helpful as much as he can do. I can't stop wondering that it's not possible to work FT and support children.
How do you do it?

OP posts:
ShortcutButton · 14/12/2015 21:33

Well from reading this thread, I think maybe 'popular school's is the crux of the problem. I live in a very deprived inner city area. We are never asked to provide costumes...activities and school production costumes all provided by school. Because many of our parents couldn't afford/wouldn't be arsed/dont have the language to access the internet. And that would clearly mark those children

It seems also, from reading this thread that the motivation for helping out is different. There is no element of having to keep up with the Jones or shame if you aren't contributing as much time as everyone else. People at our school, do what they can because they want the kids to have whatever experiences that we can provide. We want them to enjoy school. For class parties on Wednesday, I know that some parents will cook up elaborate rice dishes, chicken, Samosas, pakoras etc. Ill make blummin cupcakes, some parents will buy a packet of summation from the shop and some will send nothing. No judgements

Haroldplaystheharmonica · 14/12/2015 21:42

What the hell is a mufti day???

I have two kids (primary and secondary) so I should probably know this.

OneMoreCasualty · 14/12/2015 21:43

Mufti = no uniform

Haroldplaystheharmonica · 14/12/2015 21:52

Thanks! But where does that word come from?

LineyReborn · 14/12/2015 21:59

It's British army slang I think, that translated into British public school speak, originally.

RaisingSteam · 14/12/2015 22:06

I have just finished making four complicated costumes for the KS2 production (none for DS) but then I love sewing and any excuse to do it. I didn't really have time TBH and had some very late nights but it is a brilliant antidote to work. I'm sure some mums are Hmm who does she think she is, but it's the one thing I can do, I never can give lifts to sports or hear reading or help out at PTA (phew).

RaisingSteam · 14/12/2015 22:07

I work 4 days a week btw that's why my post had any relevance to the thread!

notquiteruralbliss · 14/12/2015 22:28

DC 4 is now at secondary school but I have always chosen not to engage with DCs schools. I have only limited time available to spend with them and do not want to waste it on pointless stuff. Fortunately, DCs mostly went to brilliant prep schools that dealt with homework, after school activities etc, making life way less stressful than when we tried our local (highly rated) state primary.

TheNewStatesman · 14/12/2015 23:38

"I still want to know exactly what people want done about it. Accepting that homework that parents do and stuff that's really expensive should definitely be stopped.

What else?"

Well...

For a start, are all these costume days actually necessary? Are they teaching anything? We did not do these all the time when I was at school, and I have heard that they make kids giddy and distracted all day long.

Give parents the OPTION of just donating a cheque and then being left alone. You said that you had never had a parent actually give a cheque, but did you formally set out the option in the form of an email that actually stated "Send a cheque and there will be no more requests"?

Can't costumes for plays be reused from year to year? Perhaps not for the Lion King, but for nativity plays....

myotherusernameisbetter · 14/12/2015 23:48

Our school rarely had dress down. A go yellow day annually for a local charity and the odd other occasion. Big production plays were every 2nd year and costumes produced by the school. Other class events usually involved them making costumes in class, sometime requests would be made for any suitable items or asking for plain t shirts to be taken in which they decorated in theme with marker pens to make what was required - e.g made to look like armour or waistcoats drawn on for victorian costume etc. I can't say my children were educationally harmed by not doing book day costumes or Easter bonnets or whatever else goes on.

prettybird · 14/12/2015 23:57

That's exactly what ds' primary school did: no dressing up for World Book Day (I think in 7 years, they dressed up in pyjamas once for Comic Relief) and the costumes for the Plays Assemblies (4 a year/1 per term) were recycled from previous ones and at most we'd be asked for an old shirt or if we had x or y that would suit the story line.

It was a great school and gave ds an excellent foundation for secondary school (he's currently sitting his Nat 5 prelims equivalent of Mock GCSEs). It was very conscious that it had an extremely mixed demographic (both economically and racially) and that it couldn't and wouldn't expect kids to be disadvantaged because their parents couldn't get involved for whatever reason.

I worked full time in a demanding job but never felt that the 15 minutes homework ds had to do was onerous on me. Even when it lengthened to 30 minutes some nights in P6/7, most of that time was spent on work he had to do for himself and all we needed to do was be around for if he had any questions.

RB68 · 14/12/2015 23:58

Things I have learnt (DD yr 6 this year)

  1. Don't give a monkeys what anyone else thinks about what you are doing
  2. Get involved in what you like doing - for me I like to bake, have a cooker that's on all the time can make a rack of buns in around 15 minutes with 5 to ice later.
  3. Use a diary
  4. Use the Oracle (Fridge) wisely for appropriate info in date order with highlighted requirements
  5. Train Child to advise you of whats on this week & to do their own thing with homework, I don't agree with homework AT ALL but will help if she is struggling or asks only - she is quite independent about it now thank God but not looking forward to high school - I see time management training happening
  6. Invest in generic tunic type thing that could be shepherd or shepherd (6 times she was a shepherd!!!)
  7. Find a way to connect with the group to share stuff like costumes, dates, info and so on about events, trips and so on.
  8. Put yourself out occasionally to help others and you will have it returned ...eventually
  9. Never iron anything except where absolutely necessary
10. Use a cleaner
slightlyglitterpaned · 15/12/2015 00:08

Hmm. DS will definitely be attending an inner city primary school, with mixed economic, racial, social intake. Sounds like we may be okay in that case. Must remember not to move out to well-off suburbs or villages.

Notimefortossers · 15/12/2015 00:10

Maybe I will revisit getting a cleaner. I got one once, but she was unreliable and her standards were somewhat lacking so she went. It put me off. Plus, I only had her two hours a week and I thought to myself 'Can I not find two hours a week to clean my own damn house?' . . . Turns out no, no I can't ;)

2rebecca · 15/12/2015 00:17

You only get this silly crap that assumes all mothers stay at home at primary school, and it's worse in the first couple of years. When they head to university they'll be glad you have an income that can help support them. That sounds like a stupid number of emails. I would send a reply email to the school reminding them that in many families both parents work and can they please ensure any homework is of a standard that the child can do it on their own. I think homework for primary school kids beyond a few spellings and some reading practice is pointless.

Lightbulbon · 15/12/2015 00:31

This thread is making me feel like a crap parent tbh and I used to be a PTA chair.

unlucky83 · 15/12/2015 00:36

Interesting about the demographic - thinking about it DCs primary is in a very 'naice' area.
A loooong time ago I used to work in an inner city state primary, they did a non-religious play at this time of the year and we still had the odd child excluded by their parents on religious grounds... which made it very tricky because the older children made their costumes in class using materials provided by the school (the children not taking part had to sit in another class to do some extra work). Although bits were already made - not sure f they were kept from previous years and adapted or maybe some teachers/parents made things outside school too.
Not sure about the really young DCs - maybe the school provided or they weren't in it - can't really remember...
It was a non-uniform school anyway but they never had dress up days.
(I wasn't a fan of uniform for primary but after that I was - it was like a fashion show at times - and sometimes inappropriate - the 6 year olds in black lace crop tops were marginally better than the (mature) 11 yr olds in crop top and mini skirt combos Shock...not even going to mention the boys with their bling and labelled 'sports' gear...)

Bogeyface · 15/12/2015 00:50

Totally depends on the school.

At DS's school it was assumed that parents (mothers) were available at all times. It was in an area with high unemployment, where generally if there was a parent in work it was only one parent, usually the father.

Where I am now, same town different village, many families have 2 working parents. There is the issue of parents evening still being held during work hours, but generally speaking they do understand that not everyone can just drop coffee or lunch to attend school. And thanks to enough people complaining, they give us more notice. Working isnt the issue, not having enough notice to get time off is the issue, and school seem to have finally cottoned on to that.

Bogeyface · 15/12/2015 00:51

Demographic wise....DS school in what would be considered a low income area, lots of social housing and benefit claimants.

The other kids school in "naice" area where many would assume lots of SAHM, but actually the reason many families can afford to live here is because of having 2 working parents.

Want2bSupermum · 15/12/2015 01:27

I am in the US where the vast majority of families are dual income. Schools know they need to give notice if they want participation. Our school has assigned a parent advocate to each family to communicate all of the events parents need to participate in or contribute to. If DD needs something for school DH or I order the item from Amazon and have it delivered to our parent advocate. The parent advocate checks it is ok. If it isn't she tells us and I collect it the following morning.

I am shocked by what I see on FB. It looks like being a parent to a young child attending school is a PT job from what I have seen since September. I attend quite a few of the school events but can't do all of them.

ProjectPerfect · 15/12/2015 03:59

bertrand I want better communication from the school and judging from many contributions to this thread so do other parents.

The need for a frog* costume for the school play on forest creatures doesn't arise three days before the performance, nor does the option to be at the school to watch it at 11am.

Presumably teachers define an annual teaching plan. They must know forest creatures is January, Victorians is February, cake sale is March etc. I just want a bit of notice.

When I'm not in an airport lounge in Africa (as I am now) my job offers me enormous flexibility but I do ideally need 24 hours to rearrange commitments - schools don't suddenly decide to do a concert on Wednesday morning so why only let me know Tuesday?

*insert any other random unlikely to have in the dressing up box costume

mathanxiety · 15/12/2015 04:32

Burgatroyd Xmas Grin You are a woman after my own heart -- I used to staple costumes together, and I also stapled the hems of skirts and trousers if they dropped. Life is too short.

Babyjakesmum -- something for you

YYY to dress down days for fundraising instead of costumes. The DCs' school did this at least once a term. There was almost always 100% participation and the children enjoyed it a lot.

There were only two costume days, three if you count Greek play day where they wore sheets and flat sandals or flip flops for the Greek mythology play. The other two events were the Hundredth Day of School for Kindergarten -- they dressed as people aged 100, and Famous Person Day in grade 3 where they picked a famous person, wrote and presented a report on him or her, dressed as that individual. My family did Rosa Parks, Joan of Arc and Michael Jordan plus two others whom I can't remember now. Those were the only three days per child when I had to supply a costume.

Amen to 'death by worksheet', LineyReborn. I know one woman who used to send her DCs to bed at 7.30 and then take out their homework and do it herself with her left hand.

BertrandRussell -- 'no plays, trips?'
Streamlined plays and trips was the compromise my DCs' school arrived at, respecting the fact that the parents have lives to lead and many had younger children, most families had two jobs, and the fact that most parents were paying for their children to attend in hopes of passing entrance exams into selective high schools so academic focus was important.

As well as streamlined plays and performances, costumes were streamlined too and usually consisted of 'shepherd fabric' plus rope, etc. or something parents had many weeks of warning about. The presentations never varied. Each event came ready-made in a binder for the teachers to use so no matter what staff came or went the event remained the same. With five DCs this made for some boring viewing sometimes, but I was glad not to have to spend time or money making or providing costumes for newly designed productions. Actually it wasn't that bad -- there was a little tweaking over the years, but the costumes remained. I am gobsmacked at this talk of Amazon Prime.

My DCs' school had a drama club for those older children who were interested in acting or being stage hands, lighting, etc. Most of my DCs joined the drama club and had a ball with others who appreciated the enterprise. They put on three plays per year, ensemble pieces. Costumes were stockpiled. Most originally came from Goodwill (second hand clothes chain).

Up to age 11, the DCs did a total of three 'dramatic' presentations with their classes -- one singing thing at age 4, another in kindergarten, and the Greek play in 6th grade (everyone participated). They did show and tell in class until first grade, many oral presentations of projects and Q&A sessions every year, writing and reciting poetry, and much individual reading and solo singing in the church at monthly Mass. There was also a church children's choir that was optional.

All the children from Kdg to 3rd grade participated in one evening carol event coming up to Christmas -- there were no individual class Nativity plays, just a church full of parents and grandparents and about 150 children dressed however their parents deemed fit (most wore a Christmassy outfit or school uniform) for one evening. There were absolutely no class Christmas parties.

There was also a tableau involving actors and narrators from 4th grade in the church for Easter every year at a school Mass -- there were no lines to learn, and costumes were plain fabric/sheets that the school stockpiled, plus trousers/shorts/skirts for some roles.

That was easily enough in the drama line for the general school population and the parents.

Each year went on at least two trips per year, which always had to be broadly educational or service oriented (e.g. singing for residents at a local retirement home). There was never a residential trip. The last year always featured a day long ski trip (we get snow here), a trip to a major historical site -- a long day, a trip to a Holocaust museum (long day), a trip to a local art museum with guided tour of the Impressionist exhibits, a trip to see an opera (matinee, longggggg) plus a fancy lunch out. Fundraising by the 8th graders provided a subsidy for these trips.

PTA dues provided many fun assemblies every year so coughing up was strongly urged. You could contribute more than the minimum suggested donation if you wanted.

Wrt the $20 to be left alone thing -- the PTA had a long list of jobs you could volunteer for and the approximate time commitment required for each, so you wouldn't bite off more than you could chew. There were many once-offs like stuffing envelopes or typing names and addresses for an hour or two, or chaperoning a field trip. I got away with applying stage makeup once for the drama club (no prior experience or expertise whatsoever) and going two field trips (Holocaust museum and art trip) plus serving pizza a few times, and I co-chaired the school's big bake sale once. With a large family, I left my volunteering until the last two DCs were almost finished there. We always bought from the bake sales over the years.

Demographic profile -- The school had no catchment area and a mixed intake both socially and in terms of family finances, with many American families (some third generation or more in the school), many blow-ins from other parts of the country, and many immigrants who had no experience of volunteering, no idea what many of the events entailed (a 'sock hop' for instance, or about the school's long tradition of sports, or what the big basketball night was all about). Many parents drove their children long distances to the school. There was a daycare room for all ages that opened at 7 and closed at 6 so parents could drop children off/pick up at convenient times. It was a fee paying school but about one quarter of families received a waiver of tuition and were in effect subsidised by the parish.

The high level of organisation and attention to clear communication arose from the perception that creating a community out of such diverse elements was important, and because fundraising was really important in order to keep on being able to subsidise families who could not otherwise afford to attend -- fundraising tends to be most effective when people feel they are a part of the community raising the money. Like the dramatic and musical presentations, all the fundraisers and all of the events put on such as tea with Santa, etc., had a binder containing all the details anyone would need to know about how to run them, and a timetable for tasks. Literally anyone could volunteer to join the committee that ran the school auction that generated $80K annually, even if they had never participated in anything like that before. A strong esprit de corps contributed to robust academic health too.

Mistigri · 15/12/2015 08:27

The most important issue for working parents is that the school is organised and gives plenty of notice, and that expectations are reasonable.

Like ProjectPerfect I have a certain amount of flexibility when not travelling but I need notice - I can't organise a costume from a hotel a 12 hour flight from home, and with the best will in the world DH was not always be able to do it (he was seriously unwell for much of my youngest's time at primary school).

Generally we've found the schools here reasonably understanding, and we do put out when we can - for eg we are hosting a Spanish exchange student this week (even though he arrived the day I got back from a business trip!) because I think that when teachers go above and beyond, parents should support them if possible and especially when the project has objective educational benefits for the pupils.

bibliomania · 15/12/2015 09:46

I'm feeling deep relief that I only have one dc who is at a school with reasonable expectations. Single parent working ft.

Some possible sanity-savers:

  • You don't have to do everything.
  • You don't have to do stuff well. What happened to the Great British Bodge Job? Easier to pass off as all the child's own work. DD and I spent an hour one evening working on a pirate ship - we enjoyed it. Then we turned up and it was by miles the worst one there. I started laughing, and after a moment of indignation, dd did too.

So you've dressed your child as a camel and he loses his hump half-way through the nativity - it can become a cherished family memory. Far better to approach it in a spirit of have-a-bash and have-a-laugh than a neurotic quest for perfection - a much healthier example for your dcs.

It's how you frame it - honestly, your child's education/future isn't ruined by stuff like this. Do it and enjoy it, if you can, or else sidestep as much as possible - honestly, the sky won't fall in.

BertrandRussell · 15/12/2015 09:46

Come on now, tell the truth and shame the devil! as my granny used to say. Is there in some people just a teeny tiny touch of "I'm far to busy and high flying for all this mumsy stuff"? Grin

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