AIBU to want dd to have traintrack braces but no teeth removed?

[Italiangreyhound]

AIBU to want dd to have traintrack braces but no teeth removed?

The orthodontist says my dd (11) needs train track braces to straighten her teeth.

The waiting list is about 18 months.

Since about 8 days old dd has sucked her thumb and nothing I have ever been able to do has helped her to stop (despite her saying she wants to stop!). So we have 18 months for her to stop so she can get her teeth straightened.

When she finally does stop thumb sucking and gets to the top of the list the orthodontist says she will need train track braces to straighten her teeth and in order to do this the orthodontist will take out two teeth.

I did not really think anything of it until a friend told me that they don't need to take out teeth nowadays with traintrack braces.

Can anyone tell me how it has worked for them or their child, please?

DD is terrified of having teeth removed and if it is not necessary I would rather avoid it.

I'm surprised our orthodontist didn't talk to us about the option not to remove teeth, especially as the NHS website seems to suggest it is not very common tp remove teeth now- " But, as a result of recent advances in orthodontic treatment, removing teeth has become much less common."

My dd has only had one baby tooth removed and that virtually fell out as it was stuck at an odd angle - think 'Nanny McFee'!

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Orthodontics/Pages/Howitisperformed.aspx

"Removing teeth

In some cases, it may be necessary to remove a tooth to correct the position and appearance of nearby teeth. But, as a result of recent advances in orthodontic treatment, removing teeth has become much less common.

However, if baby teeth have been extracted, there is a greater likelihood that adult teeth will need to be extracted as part of orthodontic treatment."

Thanks.

I generally don't agree with removing teeth, it usually results in a narrower, longer face with a reduction in cheekbones as the child grows. I've had so much work done on my teeth but ultimately no decent long term results- better results would have been achieved if the dentist had treated me for a narrow jaw rather than overcrowding iyswim.

Palate expansion then train tracks I think is more aesthetically pleasing long term, braces shouldn't just treat the teeth they should treat the face too.
Google orthotropics if you have time, it's expensive (9k!) and doesn't usually require train tracks too but a less extreme and cheaper way for a similar result would be for palate widening and train tracks with nhs orthodontist.
Good luck, it's so hard to make the right choice!

Oh and my daughter stopped thumb sucking with a thumb guard which effectively turns thumb into a straw so no pleasure is derived from sucking! 2 weeks wear and nothing since! Amazing

I must to re there isn't actually enough space behind my teeth for my tongue now and it redically changed my face shape. this is the kind of thing I am worried about.

sparkly re ... minor 'op' of pulling some teeth out its not going to cause much distress I am not worried about her having the distress of an op if it is needed and will make things better.

Also those of with smaller jaws are more likely to mouth breathe rather than nose breathe, this is because the narrow jaw forces the palate higher squashing the nasal tubes, extractions exacerbate this- the health benefits of a wide jaw are huge.

SheRa thanks, re orthotropics which one, London or another?

Plus which thumb guard, please? We had this one T guard

tguard.com/

I think and DD learnt to take it off. We should have probably tried when she was younger, we kept expecting her to stop! She eventually had it at age 7 or 8. It did not work for us but glad it worked for others.

Thumb sucking is such an addition!

The one in purley.

Yes the t guard one- that's a shame, my daughter was 3 and surprisingly compliant so we had it easier! 😄Good luck!

a cause of bad teeth is overcrowding and you can't sort that any other way.

I must tell DCs orthodontist that (well orthotropics really).

We go to Purley too :)

Soupdragon- we signed up to it after researching a post from you on MN! Miles of smiles all thanks to you! Xxx

Lol... I've lost track of who I've spoken to about it on MN :)

We only discovered it through a friend and I am delighted we did.

When I had braces I had no teeth removed
BUT
I had lots of xrays first to check that I do not have wisdom teeth and they were able to push all of my teeth back in my jaw.

If there are wisdom teeth then the other teeth have to be rearranged and straightened in the existing space
which can only be done by giving them space to move
which means removing some

otherwise when the wisdom teeth come in they can make a right mess of the molars

I'm struggling to find an orthodontist in the NW that will do palate expansion

Surely Palate extension is only appropriate for certain situations?
So a good orthodontist will refuse it in all others?

My treatment would have been utterly inappropriate if they had focussed on the front teeth not the back

there is a reason why failed dentists become medics

Why isn't the dentist having your daughter wear an expander before putting on the braces? The expander is used now to eliminate the need to pull teeth in many cases (and your daughter could be wearing it now before having the braces put on, so that her bite can be opened enough that there is room for all her teeth). I wore an expander before getting my braces; the dentist said that pulling teeth was "the old fashioned way" when the expander would open up the bite enough to keep the teeth. I would ask the dentist about this.

However:

1. I'm American and maybe expanders in place of tooth pulling aren't as common in UK. I have been to UK dentists a few times, and they are radically different in approach in many ways. (but I'd rather keep teeth and have an expander).

1. I think exanders are only used on the top, so maybe it won't work on the bottom jaw, if that's where she needs teeth pulled.

Our orthodontist showed us the x-rays of our children's jaws, including where the wisdom teeth are, and said that for one child they are OK and for the other they recommended removing them. Taking out other teeth to make space for the wisdom teeth didn't seem to be an option.

But we are in North America where taking out wisdom teeth in your teens seems to be the norm (oh and I also know American children who've had teeth taken out).

As all treatment is private here, mostly partially covered by insurance plans (eg my plan pays for up to $2.5K for each of us) orthodontists don't have the same incentive to look for the cheapest option, in fact in some ways they could be incentivized to go for the most expensive (although wisdom teeth removal counts as dentistry not orthodontists, covered under a different part of the plan that's usually more generous).

dd's palette expander was only to make her top teeth match her bottom as part of improving her bite. She had started to wear away her canines so we knew it as necessary. It was not a fun treatment. She only had to have 5mm expansion but the plate's been in there for six months, and for three months that was with me turning a key to push her jaw out every three days. After each turn her mouth hurt, and she had to eat soft food. Both putting the plate in and taking it out was also really painful. She had to have lots of painkillers for several days and didn't really want to eat at all.

We hope it's going to be worth it! I'd not have said there was anything wrong with her teeth before the work, it was a nasty surprise to be told that she had serious issues.

ALL of my US cousins who have had braces (20+) have had teeth pulled - up to 12 in some cases

2 of my older DC have had amazing palette expansion as they all have small jaws, the orthodontist just said he didn't think it would create enough space for youngest one to keep all her teeth.

A different (we were in the south east) orthodontist treated the other 2. I want to try it rather than just pull teeth because basically I know that is the cheaper option...

We had the - oh its all the fault of the thumb sucking but her teeth mirror both mine and my mothers in pattern and formation - so not 100% convinced as I know I wasnt a thumb sucker. she stopped around about age 8 and now only when super tired I sometimes find her asleep with it in - I just pop it out.

We sat and had a discussion about it and she tried really hard not to, but I also took an active role once she was asleep and removed it and this really seemed to help her. She still struggles a little to get off to sleep aged 10 but its OK. She has a tiny moth though and currently only has 4 top teeth through in the space of 6 baby teeth and the rest of her teeth are solid!! We have a further one coming down but no sign of anything else! On the bottom we are still on 4 and no wobblers at all.

We have been told the orthodontist won't even consider seeing her till they are all down - which I am not happy about - I would like to plan (and save!) but you have mentioned a few things which makes me think we should free ourselves from the system for advice at least

Hmmm, i just turned 42. Last year i went for 3 "opinions" on getting my teeth straightened with the damon braces (other options unsuitable) ; 1 of them talked of the odd tooth removal. I didn't need it according to the one i went with and having them off just before xmas. Unless the teeth are obviously overcrowded, i was led to believe taking out adult teeth was just a quick route to a shorter time in braces, and unnecessary

YANBU. My teeth sound similar to your daughters - I sucked my thumb till age ten, which shoved the roof of my mouth up and narrowed the top jaw, creating overcrowding. The orthodontist said I'd need 4 teeth extracted plus to wear headgear in the day(?!!) so I refused braces at age 12. After my wisdom teeth came in, there was even less room and the rest of my teeth started to shuffle forward and the front became much more wonky. My usual dentist said the only solution would be remove 4 teeth. So I did a load of research and changed dentist, I had something called 'orthopaedic orthodontics'. Basically an expander device is put inside your mouth behind the teeth for 6-18 months before some train tracks. For me this meant no teeth needed to be removed as instead they gently expanded the jaw into the correct position. This treatment apparently used to be considered very 'alternative' but it is becoming much more popular now. (Some dentists are saying its a new breakthrough which is funny cos my dad had the same thing 60 years ago.). I was shocked when I did my research to learn that there is no agreement among dentists over what causes overcrowding or how best to treat it, different dentists may use completely different treatments for the same case. I have a friend who had 2 teeth removed as a child and its caused her lots of problems since, all later dentists said that was bad treatment. So I suggest you do a lot of research, question everything you're told and seriously consider the orthopaedic thing, although I don't know if the nhs offer it or if its private only. I paid £1300 for the orthopaedic bit (At Leonette Rosseau in Sevenoaks). There's some more info here bassorthodontics.com/our-patients/young-children/orthopaedics. If you do end up going that route then try to start treatment in the holidays as it affects your speech for the first few weeks until you get uses to it. x

Boiing thank you, excellent advice. Very good.

Just to follow up on my DDs plate - we're in Scotland so I don't know if that made a difference but it was free. If she loses it it's £65 for a replacement. It may also be to do with how severe DDs issues were judged to be.

Also, I had a brace aged 37-41 and had 2 teeth removed. I'm not sure the difference in advice is to do with private/NHS - I would guess it's more the individual practitioner. Mine was very definitely private as the £5k hole in my bank account can testify! It's definitely worth seeing if there is a range of options before treatment. For what it's worth, I did have two teeth removed as a child - I remember it so it can't have been fun but I don't remember it as being a terrible experience.

I hope you can get the answers you need so you're comfortable your DC is getting the most appropriate treatment.

Every case is unique though, ItalianGreyhound. What was appropriate for one mouth may not work for another.

YANBU to ask to sit down and discuss every possible option for treatment and to question why one route is favoured, but asking for a certain course of treatment because someone else did it that way would B U.

I had four teeth removed for orthodontic work when I was a teenager.

The results have been cosmetically good except that in the past few years (now 58), the gaps that were closed have begun to open up again. It is very annoying as food gets stuck in the opening gap and I am worried for my longer term dental health. If it can be avioded I think that not removing teeth is better.

PS, when the dentist tightens the wire for the first time.... give DD lots of pain killers. For 'sore' read torture! (though not sure how it compares to giving birth)..

Sorry, late responding to this. In the USA, they use expanders, not extraction.