Saudi Arabia

[MagicFinger]

Ok, not strictly Aibu, but I've had no answers on chat and I really want to learn about it.

I was reading about Saudi women being allowed to vote for the first time today and googled photos of Saudi.

There appear to be women in the streets without a male escort and some with their heads uncovered.

I was wondering how these laws for women work in practice and whether it is actually as strict as it is portrayed in the West?

Westerners live in a bubble in comparison to the imported domestic workers / slaves - they may be raped, beaten, starved or even murdered with impunity by their Saudi employers
e.g. this Indian maid had her arm hacked off by an angry boss Al Jazeera

Agree, BigChoc, and while not condoning it, that is not just a Saudi problem. It is, unfortunately, the sort of things that happens all over the Gulf.

Desert it was a town next to Jeddah, and yes although in big cities you can go out really late and do shopping especially during Ramadan , in small towns where shops are closed, a man walking alone is stopped and questioned. If the reason he's out is only cause he needed fresh air, he might be taken in for further questioning
We were out as a family loads but couldn't sit down in a restaurant and eat together in certain towns.
So I haven't been there since the 90s but still have contact with expats who said things are pretty much the same

Are you saying the local ladies don't cover their face? And they can sit in a coffee shop and restaurant with their husband and eat and have a laugh?

It's a strange sort of 'vote' when there are separate women-only polling stations and women can only go there if their male guardian agrees.
And these elections don't elect the government, only local bodies with limited powers.

The national government is controlled by the ruling family and religious authorities, and they have no intention of changing.

Locals cover their face with a Niqab or Burka, but in the family section of restaurants, I have seen some take the Niqab off, eat with family or friends, and re-robe as they leave. Yes.

The curfew thing makes sense. We have shopping from 4pm til midnight, and some shops which open early til 11am ish as well. Most shopping is shut between Dhuhr and Maghrib prayers, especially on a Friday.

I'm over in the East.

When I was at primary school, 2 sisters (middle class White british) left to go to Saudi Arabia with their parents as their dad had got a job over there. We thought it sounded very exotic and exciting and were rather envious.

I look back now with a proper understanding and wonder what the actual fuck were their parents thinking? Putting money above their children's welfare.

Marking my place...I have worked in the Gulf for many years but avoided KSA. I am now going there for a week on business next month.

I need a chaperone and it appears there is only one hotel in Riyadh that caters for women travelling alone. (As in, it has a floor only for female business travellers - from what I hear from colleagues, this is a safety issue, because many have experienced Saudi men trying to get in their hotel rooms overnight).

I am SO dreading it.

Can you not refuse to go Old?

DH has worked there a fair few times over the last decade or so. It's great money with a great deal of protection and security for people in his job, so he's ok about visiting. They offered him a permanent role out there and when he turned it down offered a 12 month contract with a view to all of us relocating for a short time. We didn't even discuss it; both of us feel exactly the same way about the place, that it's great to earn a good salary but that anything more is out of the question.

Threads like this just cement my opinions on it.

I have never been to Saudi Arabia, however a few years ago, I was involved in helping new Saudi students settle in in at university here in Europe (there was a program that allowed Saudi students to study in the UK, Netherlands etc. not sure if it is still running now) So obviously I only heard what they told me, but some of it was very shocking. One boy told me that he was out with his (female) cousin, and they were stopped by the religious police. They were unable to provide proof that they were related, so she was taken to prison, and he was sent home. Her dad had to go and provide proof so she was allowed out.
In mixed settings, the girls were very, very quiet, as they were unused to being in an educational setting with men. Some of them would speak almost in a whisper, they were so very timid.

Old I'm guessing your at the 4seasons?? Have you looked at the ??Luthan?? Spa? Ladies only, so not sure what your chaperone would do??

I have seen some take the Niqab off, eat with family or friends, and re-robe as they leave
So local woman revealed their face in front of male friends? Yes I guess it might happen but if the religious police finds out... Let me put it politely... They are FUCKED!!!

Sometimes in houses yes some men can see the face of their friends' wives but this is sometimes allowed only in private places and not in restaurants
When I was in cosmetic stores in Jeddah, local ladies would very quickly remove the cover to try out the lipstick , and because the religious police suspected they were doing so, they used to do unplanned visits to the stores to catch them out!
On a different note my dad's colleague's wife dared to laugh a bit when we were walking on the street and the religious police stopped us and asked her Dh (cause she wasn't worth talking to) to tell her to never laugh publicly again!!

Id hate to think what's happening in these family homes behind closed doors!

Oh and if you ever see ladies without the hijab ... They are Americans! Not a dig obviously, but totally different rules apply!

'Princess' by Jean Sasson is an excellent book about the life of a female member of the Saudi royal family. Fascinating but truly shocking.

I've just googled to find out about the Princess who was executed. Just shocking.
She must have been a very brave woman.

I'm going to buy that book thanks destinysdaughter

Still, the money's good if you work there, we need their oil, they buy our weapons, help us with terrorist information and it's better the devil you know

They do buy our weapons, and they do share intelligence. But we get a relatively tiny proportion of our oil from Saudi Arabia, less than 4%.

They also export terrorism, indiscriminately bomb Yemen and use their oil wealth to buy weapons.

Saudi Arabia = Evil country.

Shakirasma, those girls will have lived ona Western-style compound - a town in itself - and attended a western-style school where their dress etc was not proscribed. Their day to day life would have been safe, with plenty fo leisure activities and friends around, so not so bad.

Desert - yes I will be at the Four Seasons. I was not aware of there being a Ladies only spa, will definitely check that out, thank you I already found the Ladies mall, but I am not sure what I am going to do for the other 6 nights order room service, barricade the door then phone DH and cry

I could refuse to go, but it won't go don well. I have travelled a fair bit in the region so am no stranger to an abaya either. I also recently fell out spectacularly with the "boss" in KSA, so I am now expected to "play nice". Was also fully expecting my visa to get refused again - arse.

Will report back. My friend just told me she saw executed bodies hanging from cranes near Jeddah after Friday prayers....

Why the fuck are you there?

Why?

Money? Tax?

You cannot carry on working there unless you actually agree with what goes on.

Old don't go to Jeddah on Fridays I've said before they do amputations lashes etc
Other than that if you think it's safe go and do some shopping to take your mind of things - shopping is good value and always negotiate the price. But make sure you're safe first before going anywhere.. Lovely men there have the habit of thinking a woman is a 'slut' if she's by herself and is looking for man, that's why she travels alone.. So do be careful!

Someone needs to work in the oil industry don't they where else can people go where they will be safe Nigeria, Iran, Libya ???

Yes money will be good less opportunities here in that field