to shout at my student son for getting low marks at university

[bluehaze]

Son in first term at uni doing biochemistry. He is getting 50% marks for his lab reports. Yesterday I shouted and ranted about him having low standards, never going to get through the year, not taking university seriously etc. He does have a history of not working hard and only doing the minimum. Then I talked to a friend who said well thats about right for university marks, and nobody gets really high marks. Now I'm not sure if I was really unreasonable or whether those kinds of marks are really OK. Anyone else got any idea? For the future I want to be sure that if he's doing fine then he gets some praise for it, but then again I don't want to let it go if he's coasting along. Yes I could stay out of it and let him learn from his mistakes etc, but its taken a lot of hard work for him to get there in the first place - has bad dyslexia - and I don't want him to throw the opportunity away if a bit of timely pressure from me will make a difference!
sitting on the fence here - leave him to it, say 'well done' or nag him to do better ?

Posted too soon. His lecturers will not be able to make any allowances for him without official notification through the disability office of the university, they may sympathise but they won't be able to give extra time in tests or be lenient on writing errors. I've seen so many students "tough it out" without help and it makes no sense.

I'm a bit shocked at how involved you are. I remember asking my mum for a lift when my car broke down in the third year and she had to ask me what university I was at.

I came out with a first after scraping through some of my first year results. Let him get on with it.

I was 22 when I started university (with my then toddler DD in tow, and after having worked to pay my own way through) and I remember being absolutely horrified by the way in which my 18 year old peers behaved. But they were living away from home, and parental rules for the very first time, and... well... trying to figure out how to be independent adults. Now, those whom I stayed in touch with, are all responsible, hard-working individuals who are dreading the day upon which their own children go to university - and behave just like they did!

My DD's 19 now and is also in her first year of university. She also lives at home, as the university she wanted to go to is in our home-town. She and her peers are also struggling with the adjustment to not having teachers nag them about deadlines, about the expectations to be responsible for themselves/their own work, and - for her new friends - the fact that they're also expected to cook their own meals, do their own washing, pick up after themselves and, for a few, get jobs to fund their lifestyles. I have no clue how my DD is doing grade-wise. She's an adult. As long as I know she's doing her best, then I'm okay with that. Because it's her future she's working towards. Not mine. Hers.

My parents didn't know how I was doing at university all those years ago. Because I was an adult. Actually, because I couldn't attend my graduation (it clashed with a medical appointment for my DD - which was obviously more important than my donning a gown and a hat with a tassle on it!), I'm not even entirely certain that they know I even have a degree.

Obviously you don't want your DS to fail, and I do understand that completely. But biochemistry is hard. Even for someone without dyslexia. If your DS is getting 50pc in his labs - then he's doing okay. He only has to pass his first year. The grades don't matter until the 2nd year. Because of the huge adjustment that the students have to - in the majority - go through during their first year. Living away from home, especially in a different town, or city to your family, for the first time is hard. Combine that with lecturers who don't treat you as though you're a child, like your teachers at school/college did... and who expect you to be entirely responsible for your own work, alongside having to feed and clean up after yourself...? It's pretty rough. I'd be more upset, OP, if I were you, if I found out that he'd spent all of his money on booze rather than food, to be honest. Because believe me: that happens! Since the start of October, I've lost count of the amount of students we've had in our home for dinners, because they've spent all their money and can't afford to feed themselves (and also, I suspect, because they miss their own families and homes, and are desperate for just a slither of the comfort that even a relative stranger's homelife can provide them with).

Support your DS, be there for him, and cut him some slack. This is his life now, and you have to let him live it - as hard as that is.

I'd check he was happy at that university and still wants to do that degree.

If not there may be options to change that could be explored.

My degree wasn't what I thought it would be and I didn't fall in live with it like I thought I would - though I did finish it and get a 2:1.

I know on DH course they don't kick the less motivated off the course at end of year one like they'd have done ten years ago. Their first year retention figures are closely monitored - year 2 aren't. DH doesn't agree with it at all - I don't think any of the lectures do but it's often year 2 now that students leave often after second lot of fees.

I'd encourage looking into at least getting registered as dyslexic.

I was diagnosed at university - my lectures didn't really know what to do with the information.

I was centrally registered - which meant the exam monitors knew I got some extra time - they weren't my lectures for that course very often - and I assume any other mark adjustments would have happened after marking as it was done anomalously using identifiers not names.

I was quite late into my degree so didn't think the extra time would make that much difference but it really was a nice to have thing in the end.

DH had students come up and say there are dyslexic expecting it to mean they don't have to do the few long written parts/projects. It's still part of the degree and needs to be done - and time and adjustments aren't govern by DH they are laid down for the whole department - and any mark adjustments have to be done by more than just him.

Some have also been taken back they need formal diagnoses and to approach student support services themselves. I've read on here that some universities also now impose time limits on how old the educational reports can be - so I'd look into that. It might be registering now means another report wouldn't be needed - they are not exactly cheap.

Other than that as long as he's attending lectures and tutorials - and DH find it depressing the number who can't manage that - and you have to take his word for it - I wouldn't worry.

I was very spiky in my marks - some course I just passed others I got first class marks on. As long as he's happy, engaging with the course and feels he's coping and is managing to pass I think he fine.

Ffs don't shout at him. My parents had a go the first time I ever got a bad mark. Instead of opening up and telling them what was going on in my life I just lied to them about my marks in the future.

Please, please encourage him to get assessed for dyslexia by his university. We (academics) can't judge our students' work fairly if we don't know about things like this. Some students are reluctant to let their university know because they feel it's some kind of cheat, that they're getting an easier ride than their friends. I've spent a lot of time over the years reassuring students that this isn't the case.

Be wary of some of the comments above about the first year not counting towards the final degree result: this depends on the university, and it in some places, such as the one I'm at, it certainly does count. In my department, even though the first year represents a small part of the final result, it can be enough to bring a student down from a 1st to a 2.1 or a 2.1 to a 2.2 if they did badly enough (and since a 2.2 would place you in the bottom 5% of our graduates, that's really not something you want to happen).

But please don't shout at your son over his grades. You can't imagine how many students I've had with anxiety and depression related to parental pressure. If his grades are poor by the standards of his degree programme and department, his lecturers will certainly let him know and give him advice and support to do better.

Fabulous advice contrary

Agree with the others, yabvu.

I went from being a straight A student at school to Oxford studying Engineering science. HUGE jump! In my prelims (first year exams) I got 38%, fortunately it was considered a 'hard' year, so I didn't have to retake - just! I managed to go up a grade each year (4 year course) and ended up with a good 2:i, and a first in my project work.
50% after a single term doesn't sound too bad to me.

Back off his first year won't even count. Most people don't do very well In the first few assessments as they're finding their feet.

Uni is stressful enough without you piling on the pressure. He's an adult leave him alone

No, don't shout. Is he first year? It's still a transition period from A level if so, it takes time and experience to learn how to achieve uni standard. In any case marks vary: in my first undergrad semester I got two essays back on the same day, one marked at 84 and one marked at 56. Same when I did an MA years later, I had assignments marked in the 80s and some in the 50s. In some cases lowish marks early on are a good thing because they make you realise you need to work to achieve more!

Please encourage him to seek support for his dyslexia to put himself on a level with other students. And do back off a bit. I'm a university lecturer in a humanities subject and every year I have to break a few first years of the delusion that I am broken-hearted if they don't pass an essay - they appear to believe they are doing it for me, and that I will be terribly disappointed if they don't submit. University students need to motivate themselves to achieve what they set out to, organise their own time etc - and if they find this impossible, it's often a sign that they chose the wrong course.

And yes, it can take time to adjust to the very different standards and expectations at university compared to school. I've just handed back marks from the first essay one of my first year groups did since they started their course, and the majority were marks in the 50s. Often the students were obviously capable of better work, but didn't read the question or the rubric properly, or submitted late, so had late penalties applied etc. Mostly they figure it out by next semester, which is why the first essay isn't worth many marks as a percentage of the year as a whole.

YY, CastaDiva - it's the same for me with 'marking drafts' and 'how many drafts do I have to do'? Do 12 or none, it's all the same to me because I'm not reading them! It's because at A level, they're on a team with the teachers to satisfy examiners in relation to exam questions someone else has set them - I have to explain that as it's me who's marking and me who's set the questions (yes, bad grammar), there'd be no point in me reading their drafts and telling them how to make it better in order to satisfy.... me. I want to see what they can do!

First term not final year, he's still settling in so shouting won't help but glad to read after your first post you are rethinking a strategy.

I don't agree that the OP shouldn't interfere because her son is an "adult". Her son is a financial dependent. If he wants to be an adult and do as he pleases, then he shouldn't ask for handouts.

Some parents can't afford to fritter away thousands of pounds a year on a son who can't be bothered to work hard. If he fails, then no doubt he will be sticking his hand out to his parents for more money to be able to repeat the year, and then sticking his hand out again for subsidies if he can only get a low paid job after graduating with a third. For a lot of parents, funding a child through uni involves things like working extra hours, remortgaging the family home etc, and this shouldn't be frittered away.

Tell him that his funding is conditional on him working hard and trying his best, and make him be self supporting if he sees the year as a doss. When he's paying for it himself with a part-time job and loan, he might start to value the chance he has. Something given for free is often just taken for granted and not valued.

Shouting is not going to help matters. Not only that but he probably feels disheartened enough without you adding to it by going off like a firecracker

he will stall contacting you or telling you his marks if you keep this up... maybe be a bit more supportive and find out from him what he thinks of his marks and what the pass mark is etc

harsh there is no evidence that the OP's son is not working hard, is there? Lots of students get less than brilliant marks in first year, and beyond, because the work is hard, it is set so that the average is likely to be between 55 and 65%. Lots of students will get 2.2 marks and below (and a 2.2 is classified as "good", 2.1 "very good" and 1st "excellent"). Shouting at someone who has done their best is not going to magically make their marks better. I too have had students crying in my office because their parents appear, from my side of the desk, to be totally heartless and unrelenting in the pressure they apply to students to get the parents' money's worth out of university.

My son told me he'd been missing some lectures the past 3 weeks. His reason for this is that he has a piece of course work that needs to be completed for next Monday and that counts to his final grade. He's been focussing on that and just reading notes from the lectures.
I discussed whether orn not it would have been possible to do both if he did less kayaking and gaming but he wanted to do things his way. His exams in January will show whether or not he should have gone to more lectures (early Jan exams are a mean invention to make xmas and new year miserable for students, really glad I didn't have these.

Lots of constructive advice.

Have you actually asked him if he is concerned about his grades? If he has made friends he'll have a good idea if he is average or towards the bottom of the class.

If he is concerned then the simple thing is to encourage him to meet with his tutor to discuss his grades, whether or not he should avail of additional support or at what point they should get together again to review if things are ok.

I failed my first year of uni and had to repeat the exams in the summer. I was a grade A student at school and totally floundered with some of the compulsory subjects in first year. I didn't ask for help, slipped too far behind and failed 3 out of my 7 first year subjects. I don't recommend it at all. My parents took little notice and assumed all was ok and were very taken aback that I failed.

Your approach doesn't sound very constructive though. Sorry.

I agree with other posters. At school nowadays young people are taught a syllabus and with hard work and aptitude can answer every exam question correctly - if they use the facts included on the syllabus. Never mind if recent research or world events mean those 'facts' are now disproven or out dated. My daughter got 100% in a geography A level module but all it meant was she had memorised that module , not that she is good at geography.

At degree level your son will be expected to do his own reading and research, think for himself and learn from his tutor's feedback so for a first year student ( a beginner in his subject) to be achieving 50% is excellent. I jus finished a Masters - in my first year I averaged about 50% and that gradually increased to 65/70% in my final yearwhich was as it should be because my understanding and expertise in my subject grew as I studied.

Also - remember the undergrad mantra 'first year doesn't count' meaning it doesn't contribute to your final grade. There is a reason for that!

early Jan exams are a mean invention to make xmas and new year miserable for students, really glad I didn't have these.

I found them a mix blessing. It halved the number of exams I had to take in the summer but meant I had to head back earlier.

I did get at least a week usually a week and a half of very quite time - long long days in the library fully focused on revision. Summer one we often had course work hand in just before or during exam period.

OP are you sure the lab reports are part of the final mark and for how many courses?

I've had courses where they were 100% others 50 % and other still where the counted for nothing as we had a final exam - sometime lab based. Other still weighted particular reports later ones in year being worth more. It's possible he getting lower marks here as the marks mean less than other areas he concentrating on.

The reason first year doesn't count is so you have some freedom to make mistakes, not so you can arse about though, I just want to say!

And although lots of students do seem to take the 'first year doesn't count' line as an invitation to do very little, there are also a lot who come and say 'I wasn't very pleased with my mark - can I resit it, or get it re-marked?' Nope. Another A level hangover....

An assessment for dyslexia for uni will need to be carried out post-16 and be less than three years old. They are expensive, but if you've taken out all loans from SFE, you may get a contribution towards the costs from the Access to Learning Fund. It's important he has appropriate support to give him a level playing field. If he's done well at school without this support, he's been able to cope to A level standard, but being at uni is probably a step too far.

Whilst the first year might not count from a marks point of view, it's important he's up to speed on the content of the first year course, if he's to build on that and continue into and do well in his second year. Too many students think they can wing it and catch up at a later stage in the academic year, and that's not always going to be possible. He shouldn't be struggling because of a disability. If he's struggling because of extra-curricular activities, then that's a different matter.

YABU to shout at him.

From what I know from friends who do subjects with lots of labs biochem biomed etc in first year they're usually only worth about 20% combined for the entire year/module depending how the course is set up.

This is from a few different unis

I'm glad the op has acknowledged that she was out of line for yelling at her son. It will help no one, although I can understand the reaction and my mum would have probably bawled me out too.

He's a fool to himself for not speaking to the learning support team about his dyslexia. As a marker I might have strongly suspect a student was dyslexic but couldn't make any adjustments for them in my marking unless notified by the learning support team. I fear that by shouting at him it will be harder to persuade him to do this, as he'll be on the defensive and less inclined to listen what you might say.

Likewise is he happy with the course? or the University? With 20-20 vision I'd have picked a different university and a different subject at undergraduate level. The feeling of being 'a fish out of water' never really left me and hindered my academic performance.

I think you perhaps need to let the dust settle for a few weeks and then have a mature grown up conversation with him 'Is he happy with life at university?' Is he struggling with the course?, is there anything you can do to support him? and if he is prepared to open up, stress the advantages of letting university know about his dyslexia. Is there any possibility he may be depressed? I was diagnosed with clinical depression in my second year, I skipped lectures and spent long periods in bed, friends thought I was being a typical lazy student and I didn't have the emotional maturity to understand what was happening.

The first term at university is an extraordinarily steep learning curve, going from being spoon-fed at A-level to taking greater responsibility for learning. Add in the complications of independent living and it is a lot to take on. Some students need a bit more support to make that adjustment. Saying 'well he's an adult' let him get on with it isn't really helpful, she's his son, doesn't want him to fuck up and knows his level of emotional maturity.

op if you suspect that it is simply a cas of him slacking, partying or whatever and not an underlying health or welfare issue, I'd treat the 'oh well, let it slide it is only his first year, it doesn't count, he'll probably knuckle down next year' with a pinch of salt.At the moment he is on the 2:2/third borderline which isn't good enough.

Contrary to what you'll have read here , the first year does count at some universities. Also in my experience of teaching undergraduates (albeit in the humanities) some do knuckle down in the second year, but whilst first year marks may or may not alter the degree classification hugely, they provide a foundation for the next few years and if the student's knowledge of underlying principles is shakey they'll struggle. Also, just as many will have got into the mindset of doing enough to scrape by, attended just enough lectures and seminars to avoid intervention from the university and lollop out of the university with some great memories and a mediocre 2:2. In years gone by, a 2:2 wouldn't be a disaster and of my cohort a number did get onto grad schemes with 2:2s, these days it really won't cut it. The job market is cutthroat and awash with