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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to shout at my student son for getting low marks at university

119 replies

bluehaze · 09/12/2015 07:51

Son in first term at uni doing biochemistry. He is getting 50% marks for his lab reports. Yesterday I shouted and ranted about him having low standards, never going to get through the year, not taking university seriously etc. He does have a history of not working hard and only doing the minimum. Then I talked to a friend who said well thats about right for university marks, and nobody gets really high marks. Now I'm not sure if I was really unreasonable or whether those kinds of marks are really OK. Anyone else got any idea? For the future I want to be sure that if he's doing fine then he gets some praise for it, but then again I don't want to let it go if he's coasting along. Yes I could stay out of it and let him learn from his mistakes etc, but its taken a lot of hard work for him to get there in the first place - has bad dyslexia - and I don't want him to throw the opportunity away if a bit of timely pressure from me will make a difference!
sitting on the fence here - leave him to it, say 'well done' or nag him to do better ?

OP posts:

Elendon · 09/12/2015 09:05

Like others have said, and you have acknowledged, it's not a good idea to shout re grades. However, do keep an eye on things. My eldest decided at the end of her first term not to go back. Myself and her dad managed to persuade her to stay out the year (I also said she should come home at the weekends, as she was finding living in Halls hard). I also had a chat with the Uni department and they were grateful to know about it. They offered her more support, which she took.

She ended up with a 2:1, hard work and perseverance paid off in the end, but also the extra support. Some students do find the adjustment hard and it can be soul destroying for them to see others race ahead.

DrDreReturns · 09/12/2015 09:05

Also, in my course the first year didn't count towards your final classification but the second year did. At the end of my second year my grade average was such that I knew I was going to get a 2:2, I'd have had to average over 70% in my final year to get a 2:1 which was never going to happen. Perhaps remind him that next year is when it really starts to count (assuming that is how his University do things).

wobblywindows · 09/12/2015 09:06

Those kind of marks are defintiely ok. I wish someone had told me that in my first year (come to think of it they did) but I got 47% on Maths (half what I would normally get) and thought I would never live down the shame. It was a big factor in my deciding to leave before the end of the first year -despite the uni bending over backwards to get me to stay. The only thing I would worry about would be if he wasn't submitting any work and/or spending mucho time in the bar. Otherwise, encourage & support. PS I subsequently took Masters degree as mature student.

reni2 · 09/12/2015 09:16

Of course shouting won't help, but he does need to pull his socks up. If he's doing biochemistry he will probably follow it with a PhD and for most PhD entry requirement is a 2.1, although realistically most PhD students had a 1st or very very high 2.1. The majority of students now get a 2.1 at many colleges, so 50% is not going to look great on a cv.

At the colleges I know 50% would certainly be in the bottom quarter of the class. Check if he is still adjusting in which case things should pick up or if he's just hanging out in the student bar. That said, many students have an early shock in the first term and get much better later.

NerrSnerr · 09/12/2015 09:18

If my parents started looking online for grade breakdowns and asking how I was doing in relation to peers I would soon stop telling them my grades (or I would have lied). I know your funding him but he's not failing and he'll never be a independent adult if you still treat him like a child.

50% is fine anyway.

Flobberty · 09/12/2015 09:19

Yes absolutely FaFoutis, but doesn't it make so much more sense to mark out of 85 (for the majority of students) than out of 70?

It gets even worse at postgraduate level - for regular unis you need a 50 to pass and a 70 is a distinction. So really you are marking the majority of students between 50 and 70 meaning it is very hard for them to differentiate themselves. With the OU a postgrad pass is set at 40 and a distinction at 85 so again as a student one can really get a better idea of their level and how they are improving.

The OU have however recently announced they will set the PG pass mark to 50% - nothing will really change in terms of the standard required for a pass - what was called a 40 will now be a 50. However I can't help but think that it should be other unis adopting the OU model rather than the other way round.

DrDreReturns · 09/12/2015 09:19

If he's doing biochemistry he will probably follow it with a PhD
Really? I'd say most undergraduates don't follow their degrees with a PhD.

reni2 · 09/12/2015 09:24

If he wants to be a biochemist rather than a lab technician he will probably follow the degree with a PhD.

FaFoutis · 09/12/2015 09:26

The OU have however recently announced they will set the PG pass mark to 50%

What faculty Flobberty? I haven't heard that but I wouldn't be surprised, there is so much change going on. I'm an AL in Arts.

Yes I prefer using OU marking grades, I do both which can get confusing. OU marking was intended to give a broader range because OU students have a wider range of levels of ability than other university students. That probably applies just as much to 'normal' universities too these days.

MigGril · 09/12/2015 09:32

He's not getting any help with his dyslexia and that is his choice.

DOES his course tutors know he's dyslexic? Do all his lecture know. It's not like school they don't automatically get told I had to ask for them to be informed. It was easier as I was at a small uni (one of my reasons for choosing to go there). But they could be making him unfairly if they don't know, he may still be allowed extra time for exams and course work to which I was given. Not so much the corse work but exams where important for me.

He maybe trying to complete on a level with other students without any support. He will have to work twice as hard as them to get the same marks. This is what you need to understand. If that's what he choose to do uni is hard but he may struggle to get top grades. They are even more willing to help now then when I was there. So I would encourage him to access that help.

Dipankrispaneven · 09/12/2015 09:33

I think you've just ensured that he's never going to tell you again what his marks are.

roundandroundthehouses · 09/12/2015 09:40

OK, shouting is a bad approach, but if you're contributing money to him then I fully understand why you're angry. We've just been working out how much we'll be expected to pay out to support our dd - adult or not - to go to university. Even with full loans it's going to cost thousands a year because the maintenance loan doesn't even cover most accommodation. She has health problems so getting a job to make up the difference may not be a workable option. I'll certainly be keeping an eye to make sure she isn't slacking off at my expense.

When everyone is calmer, can you talk to him again about getting support for his dyslexia? You should apologise for the shouting, but anger/concern is understandable.

Flobberty · 09/12/2015 09:41

Ah I see I'm preaching to the converted FaFoutis :o

The change is coming in the postgrad Education department, and I think maybe the Childhood department too.. Not for a couple of years though.

FaFoutis · 09/12/2015 09:42

I missed that he doesn't have dyslexia support. This can help enormously. I wouldn't talk to him about his grades but I would talk to him about that.

I can understand the shouting OP, there is a lot of pressure on students (and lecturers / parents) now to make their expensive degree 'worth it'. It is a sad state of affairs.

chemenger · 09/12/2015 09:43

Lots of good advice here. Don't shout at him. What he needs to do is make sure that he has enough feedback to improve on these marks in the future. With lab reports a certain amount of the mark will be for structuring and presenting the report correctly. That then becomes the "easy" 20% or whatever of all future reports - equally it can become the easy 20% to lose for the odd stubborn student who consistently presents things in the wrong form. If he understands what he needs to move up to the next level then that's good - he just needs to do it. If he doesn't understand what he needs to do then he should speak to whoever marked the report to find out. University is about learning - some things need practice and writing really good reports, for most students, is one of those things. Many students who graduate with firsts have a rocky start in some areas, the important thing is to get feedback and learn from it.

FaFoutis · 09/12/2015 09:44

Interesting Flobberty, I expect it will be standard OU practice before long then.

2rebecca · 09/12/2015 09:45

My son rarely tells me his marks unless he's done well. In engineering the standard seems amazingly high anyway with loads of them getting above 70%. If he wasn't doing well I'd talk to him and try and sort out if he's having problems discuss work life balance etc.
I wouldn't shout, but am not a shouter.
Being shouted at just made me hate the shouter when i was young and resent them.

ReallyTired · 09/12/2015 09:46

Has the OP been to university? If so, what did she study? Biochemistry is not a mickey mouse degree. They don't give out a 2.1 for paying your tutition fees or even turning up.

Have you thought that your son may have just chosen the wrong degree and is struggling. I am in awe of anyone who does a degree with the word "chemistry" in. (Even if the title has the prefix of "bio") I couldn't do A-level chemistry to save my life.

wheelofapps · 09/12/2015 09:59

Do you know WHY he wont access support for his Dyslexia, OP???

lottiegarbanzo · 09/12/2015 10:05

If he'll talk to you, a point I'd make is that, while first year marks may not count and there's a lot of finding ones feet going on, trying your best sets you in much better stead for improving your marks later than does slacking or coasting.

Obvious really but the thing is, if you suddenly gain enthusiasm for your subject in the final year, as often happens - as content gets more interesting and it can all come together and seem more urgent (if most marks are for that year) then, it really helps to know from experience what the difference is between a piece of work that gets a first and one earning a 2:1. Or to have a similar understanding of the 2:1/2:2 border. If you haven't worked to your full potential up to that point, you can find you have no idea what you'd have to do to secure the grade you're capable of, or how best to go about it. Understanding that takes practice. That knowledge can come too late.

ClancyMoped · 09/12/2015 10:06

josephwrightofderby
Your earlier post was interesting.

My DCs are at RG Unis studying stem subjects have all mentioned that they are shocked by how many students miss lectures. I'd be a bit if my DC missed lectures for no good reason as we are paying for them to go to Uni. I think it's fair for us to have some expectations. I wouldn't shout at them for genuine bad marks but I suppose I would be pissed off with them if I thought they were messing about.

They are extremely lucky that we are funding them and the best way to show they 'gratitude' is to work hard and, hopefully, enjoy themselves too.
I don't ask for marks and the kids generally wouldn't mention them.

BabyGanoush · 09/12/2015 10:09

Modern parents are so overbearing

My parents never knew my uni grades, and would not have dreamed to shout at me

I got mainly 50% the first year.

So I started to knuckle fown a bit more the second year.

Big deal

He needs to figure this out by himself, if you ever want him to grow up

lottiegarbanzo · 09/12/2015 10:10

P.s just to be extra clear - understanding what you'd need to do to gain better grades is very personal, it relates to ones own approach, strengths and weaknesses, hence experience, trial, error and feedback being essential. It's not a case of just 'work harder' (or if it is, you're really lucky).

chemenger · 09/12/2015 10:16

I should also have said that he needs to look into getting allowances for his dyslexia. Why not get the help he is entitled to?

lottiegarbanzo · 09/12/2015 10:17

P.p.s I know this from experience of course. I found, when I knuckled down in my third year, that I was getting high 2:1s and some firsts. I didn't have the experience necessary to be able to turn a 2:1 performance up a notch consistently though. Also, the 20% from second year that counted towards final marks didn't help.

I'd spent a lot of time on extra-curricular activities in my first two years.

Good news is that despite getting 40% for one first year course and actually failing another (just didn't do the work) I ended up with a 2:1.

But, what if I'd applied my talents earlier and approached that final year at a steady jog, not a crawl?

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