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AIBU?

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Original poster

To love the idea of scrapping all benefits and just giving everyone £500 a month

431 replies

DyslexicScientist · 08/12/2015 11:33

Like Finland are going to do.

Would get rid of all the east that goes on with means testing and would cost about the same.

Would be much fairer as the current system does discriminate against certain demographics.

OP posts:
specialmagiclady · 08/12/2015 11:59

I am absolutely for giving everyone a base rate amount of money that would be enough to just about scrape by on.

People could do their important unpaid work, or supplement income by working as many hours as fit into their lifestyle.

There have been fairly largescale experiments on this in the USA for example, where they gave everyone $X,000 to live on. It cost the state less than benefits and cost less in child- and social- care because people worked for the extras, not the necessities.

Russellgroupserf · 08/12/2015 11:59

The idea of a citizens wage has been around for a long time and was supported by some friends of mine on the extreme left many years ago. As Finland are considering it I don't see why it can't be a valid discussion regardless of agreement.

wasonthelist · 08/12/2015 11:59

For the record, I am 100% not having a go at people on benefits - I have been there. If done right, it could be better for everyone.

Darvany · 08/12/2015 12:00

People who have never heard of the idea are being very quick to call troll / benefit basher Confused

A citizen's income removes the stigma of needing state support.

honkinghaddock · 08/12/2015 12:01

Dla covers the extra costs of being disabled. It is nothing to do with working.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 08/12/2015 12:01

No, you're right OP 'disabled' is a very big term. Ideally individual disabled people would get a big input into the decision about if they work and how much, and what type of work.

I really think disability benefits would be better left outside any CI system.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/12/2015 12:01

Give everyone £500? Great! I'll put it towards the school fees whilst people who really need support struggle to make up the shortfall in their rent.

There may be a bit of a flaw in this plan Hmm.

JasperDamerel · 08/12/2015 12:01

A citizens' wage is a good idea, as long is it is enough to actually live on. £500 doesn't even cover housing costs, let alone food, fuel, clothing etc.

DKeeneGaga · 08/12/2015 12:01

I never said I couldn't work. Your OP was indicating that the £500 would be given to everyone regardless of need. I'm saying that if i couldn't work for whatever reason, £500 would not be enough to live off.

Or do you think that all those on benefits are capable of working?

MaxPepsi · 08/12/2015 12:02

DH and I do not get any benefits.

What the hell would we need £500 a month for?

Granted, I could easily spend it and it would massively help us out each month but what would it be for exactly?

We would get to spend it on luxuries, how would that be fair for those who genuinely struggle to get by each month?

Original poster
DyslexicScientist · 08/12/2015 12:02

I think so too Russell, but looks like too many people have a chip on their shoulder when the b word is mentioned.

Where did I say that all disabled people could work? Hmm ConfusedI actually said the opposite as they are all different.

OP posts:
Original poster
DyslexicScientist · 08/12/2015 12:03

No, you're right OP 'disabled' is a very big term. Ideally individual disabled people would get a big input into the decision about if they work and how much, and what type of work.

Thanks, finally someone gets what I was meaning.

OP posts:
hedgehogsdontbite · 08/12/2015 12:03

I suspect Finland already has a similar system to Sweden. If it does I can see why they're proposing this because the benefits system is already way simpler than the UK's. EG there is no dla/pip equivalent.

Saying that €800 a month would barely cover our winter heating bill.

suzannecaravaggio · 08/12/2015 12:03

It will be interesting to see how this pans out in Finland
Initially many find the idea of citizens income to be counter intuitive, heres a wiki on the subject

www.reddit.com/r/BasicIncome/wiki/index

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 08/12/2015 12:04

This subject always blows a few minds and gets bunfighty OP.

It's not you. Advance search it, if you want to see how this generally goes Smile

Bettercallsaul1 · 08/12/2015 12:04

Doesn't this just increase inequality? People will get this payment who don't need it and others won't get nearly enough. Surely payments from the government need to be targeted, not handed out wholesale?

Sirzy · 08/12/2015 12:06

Nobody has said all disabled people can't work, or that they can but irrespective of that disability comes with additional costs for a family, if someone is deemed to be 'disabled enough' to get DLA then they need it. It also makes it possible to access other things too.

Disability benefits should be excluded from anything like what you are proposing.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 08/12/2015 12:06

The subject gets bun fighty because people are imagining op sitting there getting off thinking about the poor getting poorer whilst rubbing her hands with glee. Pretty fucking sick if you ask me.!!

SouthYarraYobbo · 08/12/2015 12:07

I agree with chaz. I don't need £500 from the State every month. I just can't fathom this attitude. A citizens wage sounds like a terrible idea, then the State owns you more than it already does...which in the UK is a lot.

honkinghaddock · 08/12/2015 12:08

£500 is less than the highest rate dla/pip.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 08/12/2015 12:08

Doesn't this just increase inequality? People will get this payment who don't need it and others won't get nearly enough.

It decreases means-testing and the whole 'clawback' and sky-high 'effective tax rates' that the benefit system is full of.

So an unemployed or low-income person gets the 500 but when they earn, they keep the 500 and their earnings too. It makes it easier to achieve lift off. So actually very good for narrowing inequality.

You'd probably have a small increase in higher rate tax to pay for the whole thing (plus decreased admin costs), so the top 1% would be a bit worse off, the next slice down would be neutral etc (roughly speaking).

Russellgroupserf · 08/12/2015 12:09

Scandinavian countries are often looked to as having many progressive ideas politically especially Sweden but they have tiny populations, scaling this up to a valid policy for the UK, who knows.

Finland has a population of approx 5.5 million.

SouthYarraYobbo · 08/12/2015 12:09

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Darvany · 08/12/2015 12:09

I'm also in favour of an allowance for people who are genuinely fit to work. If some people are happy to live on JSA amounts, let them get on with it. More opportunity for those who want the ever-diminishing decent jobs out there, no sanctions, fewer people needing food banks.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/12/2015 12:09

I don't think people are being chippy about benefits. I think there is a risk with this idea that it will divert funds away from those in greatest need. We have a high household income, £500 a month would not improve our basic quality of life, it would be used purely for luxury spending, saving for the DC etc. We do not need it at all.

If it is per adult rather than per household that could mean DH and I get an extra £1000 pm on top of our 6 figure income but a single parent reliant on benefits only gets £500 pm. This seems extremely unfair to me.

I would prefer money to targeted at people who really need it rather than being given to people like me who can manage perfectly well without it.