To love the idea of scrapping all benefits and just giving everyone £500 a month

[DyslexicScientist]

Like Finland are going to do.

Would get rid of all the east that goes on with means testing and would cost about the same.

Would be much fairer as the current system does discriminate against certain demographics.

And £500 a month is more than carers currently get.
by definition not living alone

not rough sleeping
not restricted to what can be eaten without cooking facilities
not having access to any sort of laundry

those of you with access to regular electricity, bedding and heating need to be aware that there are multiple levels below you

(And DP would say get a bike (his cost £40), get fit and save a fortune ..he is doing the 12 mile round trip everyday and just talking about saving petrol money but personally in this weather I'd be wanting to get the bus...)

To someone who is so disabled that he will never work again? Surely he wouldn't? Without even knowing what the disability IS?

£112 per week is a depressing sum to survive on for the rest of your life no matter how much we play 'Budget Angels'.

strawberry
my friend was stabbed in the spine 20 years ago
he has spinal fluid roaming his bloodstream
he will be in a wheelchair within three more years

he'd love to work but cannot stand

enjoy your middle class bubble
I quite openly admit to him that I only cope by retreating to mine
but he cannot
it has shaken my whole family to our core : I suspect for the better

Strawberry - the disabled person gets a free bus pass...so not relevant.

It was to a later point about a general is £500 enough to live on etc...
And it was slightly tongue in cheek ...cos I wouldn't go off cycling in this weather ...I even said I'd choose the bus option..
(But thinking about it DP might actually - he is absolutely (annoyingly) evangelical about it at the moment.....I want to stab him sometimes -or at least put a stick in his spokes )

the disabled person gets a free bus pass...so not relevant.
IF
they live in London which has decent comprehensive bus services
otherwise they, like the able bodied, are screwed

Oh I am so sorry - that was a terrible cross post...
If that was aimed at me - I am not in a middle class bubble (or rather I am now ...but I haven't always been and honestly it makes me slightly uncomfortable as a lot of people truly have no idea of how some people live)
I have been desperately poor ...more than once - I was getting out of it the first time (after a minor set back of losing everything in a flat fire) then I was then seriously ill, nearly died -I really am very lucky to be alive (even the Drs thought I would die) ...and my leg was so badly damaged that I had a disabled badge for a car that I couldn't afford to run...
and no-one told me I could claim DLA or whatever (or a bus pass) so I was trying to work as much as I could (in a job on my feet when I could hardly stand/walk). And I had to spend sometime 'living with friends' as I couldn't afford to pay rent...I retrained to something where I didn't need to work on my feet -it took years...
And after all that - against what all the doctors thought (apparently I was lucky I was so young...) my leg did get better -is now near normal.

unlucky
i don't do personal
its not useful
FFS I could let my friend move in to my spare room
he'd sleep well BUT he and I and my kids would be lumbered for ever
he does not want that
nor do i
shit as it is its better that I buy him tins of beans than give him a place to sleep
even though I know he's in pain
it breaks my heart as he's an excellent person who has been shat on
but money will not solve his problem, resources will
they are not the same thing

Talkin - I can see you are seriously trying to help your friend. And this is outside your experience.
I am sure you have spoken to shelter and the council and are listening to their advice...
The only thing I can add is has he got a social worker? Can he get one?
When I was ill one came round to see me in hospital and was supposed to be coming back to make sure I was 'supported' when I got out. I was moved hospital and didn't think about it again -until I was being discharged and it was mentioned. I said I don't think I need one (partly because all I could think about was getting out and I didn't know any different) and they happily ticked their box....
Except I did need one really - I didn't have any 'support' - I knew nothing about any of this stuff (claiming sickness benefit etc) - at one point I did go and try to claim unemployment benefit and got told I had to get a job in my field or something -which I couldn't do...they made it (and afaik still make it) so confusing and difficult to try and discourage benefit fraud that genuine cases don't get help.
(Years later I was talking to someone who campaigned for disabled rights and they were horrified)
If I had a social worker they would have pointed me in the right direction and I would have got a lot more help ...maybe that would help your friend? Someone who really knows all the ins and outs and the right boxes to tick etc?

The best of luck for you and your friend.

Some people do live on this amount with no top ups. If you are under 35 years old, you could easily be getting this amount in JSA and housing benefit. It is also slightly more than pensioners like my parents get in pension, although that doesn't include housing benefit.

Lots of people survive on very little money. We have a mortgage of £400 a month and have survived on less than £1000 a month for 2 people. So £600 for everything else is doable for us.

PIP is to pay for extra carers . They are not interested in costs like increased laundry or heating, although there are costs for increased mobility costs. So no, it is not to meet the extra costs of being disabled. It is simply to help keep you alive and functioning.

Why does everyone keep complaining that 500 doesn't cover their monthly outgoings?

It not supposted to! Its a small amount that would allow a very basic standard of living, obviously if you've got expensive rent you'd have to move somewhere cheaper / house share.

Where is it written that dla/pip is just to pay for extra carers?

by definition not living alone

not rough sleeping
not restricted to what can be eaten without cooking facilities
not having access to any sort of laundry

those of you with access to regular electricity, bedding and heating need to be aware that there are multiple levels below you

Never for one minute suggested otherwise talkinpeace, but that doesn't address let alone refute my point that while lots of low income, vulnerable people currently get more than £500 monthly per adult from the state, lots get less. That's just a fact. The existence of rough sleepers doesn't negate it.

Katarzyna iirc, isn't your household four adults plus four kids? Apologies if I'm wrong. At the rates suggested, you'd get 4 x £500 for the adults and 4 x £250 for the kids, plus extra given that your MIL and DF are disabled. That's more than 3k a month. Do you get more than that now, even with DH working full time? I'm sure there are a few households falling into that category but suspect they'd be in the minority and would probably be in that position because of expensive private rentals. If CI was coupled with more SH, which most CI advocates feel would have to happen, probably most households in that position would be better off.

Median rent for 3 bed social house in London is £120 a week

Caroldecker but the demand for social housing vastly outstrips supply in London, so rental costs are irrelevant really. Most people in housing need would be allocated. It's much easier in other parts of the country.

It not supposted to! Its a small amount that would allow a very basic standard of living, obviously if you've got expensive rent you'd have to move somewhere cheaper / house share.

some people think there is a right to live in central london (for some), no matter the cost to the taxpayer.

redstrawberry
If all the poor people moved out of central London it would grind to a shuddering halt pretty fast.

• restaurants
• shops
• hospitals
• offices
• councils
• infrastructure

all rely on the low paid being available 24/7

Disabled people would really lose out in this. I'm a single disabled mum of a disabled child and if we got £500 a month each, that would be less than half the amount we currently get in total disability/housing/council tax benefits. All of that has to go to our living costs or care/therapy expenses, there's nothing left for luxuries. Raising a disabled child costs three times as much as a non-disabled child and just a blanket amount would mean we'd lose out on the things we need because of our disabilities, and the severity of disabilities and care needs means there would be no chance to make up the shortfall through work.

Disabled people would really lose out in this. I'm a single disabled mum of a disabled child and if we got £500 a month each, that would be less than half the amount we currently get in total disability/housing/council tax benefits. All of that has to go to our living costs or care/therapy expenses, there's nothing left for luxuries. Raising a disabled child costs three times as much as a non-disabled child and just a blanket amount would mean we'd lose out on the things we need because of our disabilities, and the severity of disabilities and care needs means there would be no chance to make up the shortfall through work.

^^ this. seeing as my post was passed over before Ill try someone elses!

and mines the same situation.

some people think there is a right to live in central london (for some), no matter the cost to the taxpayer.

They do indeed, and to work part time or to have as many children as you like.

I'm against giving more money to people that have children. You should just all get the same, if you want children you should fund it yourself. Obviously not a popular opinion on here, but the thread is old now.

*If all the poor people moved out of central London it would grind to a shuddering halt pretty fast.

• restaurants
• shops
• hospitals
• offices
• councils
• infrastructure

all rely on the low paid being available 24/7*

Not really. The people that keep those services running are often people who live in horid shared conditions.

Its something ridiculous like half of all families in London have HB. That only benefits landlords in the long term.

The people that keep those services running are often people who live in horid shared conditions.

Or social housing. Or owner occupied housing bought before the house price explosion.

Rents need to be regulated. It's the only answer.

It is a nonsense that the productive, essential workers should be swept out to make way for the international super-rich. Unless the aim is to have a Disney-city with ALL essential workers living in cramped shared bunk-rooms.

It not supposted to! Its a small amount that would allow a very basic standard of living, obviously if you've got expensive rent you'd have to move somewhere cheaper / house share.
Not an option for many people, people living rurally, people with disabilities etc.

I'm against giving more money to people that have children. You should just all get the same, if you want children you should fund it yourself.
Okay, Marie Stopes, what do you suggest? We did fund our own children, my dh didn't choose his particular illness, and before you start harping on about insurances, they don't always pay out, there are many, many get out clauses. Apart from which why do you get to decide who has children and who has what is deemed enough money (by whom, pray?) to raise a family?

If you have an adapted house or rely on relatives to give you care, then yes you can't move. But a very basic income would mean that most people could live on that amount if they moved somewhere cheaper. Of course most people would top up that basic amount through some form of work.

My homeless friend supported his family : OK in a council house but with little recourse on the state
until the day he was stabbed in the spine in a random attack
Plan THAT in advance