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Original poster

To love the idea of scrapping all benefits and just giving everyone £500 a month

431 replies

DyslexicScientist · 08/12/2015 11:33

Like Finland are going to do.

Would get rid of all the east that goes on with means testing and would cost about the same.

Would be much fairer as the current system does discriminate against certain demographics.

OP posts:
Lj8893 · 11/12/2015 19:22

Haven't read the whole thread but £500 doesn't cover what we recieve in housing benefit and tax credits. And there are people out there who recieve (quite rightly) more than that.

redstrawberry10 · 11/12/2015 19:27

The difficulty is getting into social housing.

price controls. that's what happens.

Cherrypi · 11/12/2015 19:39

I think it's a great idea. Think of a world where everyone had more free time. Maybe more people would work part time. Companies would have to woo workers more. The government tax letters don't make it clear that welfare includes public sector pensions. Dodgy propaganda and a waste of paper and postage.

TalkinPeace · 11/12/2015 19:58

cherrypi
£500 a month does not go very far.

Return bus fare to town = £7 each time
Phone top up = £10 per week
Shopping = £70 a week because bulk buy discounts do not work without a car cars are out of the question on that sort of income

unlucky83 · 11/12/2015 20:04

I agree with housing being a massive problem (I could rant about it) but actually I wonder if this might help sort it out to an extent. A lot of people on HB pay way more than they could ever afford without it and have limited choice as a lot of LLs won't accept HB. Which means some LLS take the piss.*

I think it is supply and demand - if people don't get HB then they can't afford to live in some areas - which will free up some housing in the short term. Then the ones who can afford to live there will have more choice with more property available, so are less likely to have to pay vastly inflated rents. LL of empty properties could refurbish etc but sometimes there is only so much you can do (you can't make a studio into a one bed) - so may well decide it is better to just ask for less money to get someone in ... so prices would drop and some of the original tenants could afford to move back...and they would also have more choice too because they would no longer be stuck looking for LLS who will accept HB...
Or maybe that is just wishful thinking ....

*two egs - years ago I was watching a teen mother thing - one was renting a grotty 1 bed flat on a grotty council estate in the NE and 'paying' £400 pm -if that hadn't been HB no way could it have been that much (I was privately renting in a similarly cheap area of the country and paying £360 for a nice 2 bed flat at the time). The other was on Homes under the Hammer (makes my blood boil) someone building their 'property portfolio' - after minimum work (it really wasn't 'to a high standard') said they had got tenants ready to move in. They were going to get £100 pm more than the amount the estate agents quoted as rental income. (And that annoying twonk presenter congratulated them Angry.)

Orange1969 · 11/12/2015 20:06

Nope.

You are patronising.

TalkinPeace · 11/12/2015 20:09

unlucky
if people don't get HB then they can't afford to live in some areas - which will free up some housing in the short term.
I take it you do not want to buy petrol or go to a supermarket or takeaway in an expensive area then
let alone get the office cleaned
or parcels delivered Hmm

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 11/12/2015 20:15

Talk's right. Charging higher rents will get tricky when the bins are overflowing and clinics have to go on short-time because they don't have enough cleaners, hairdressers are offering dry cuts with top stylists only and even restaurants are struggling with a waiter shortage.

Buying season tickets and travelling in won't make sense to people earning low wages.

Maybe somewhere like Bristol it could work, but not London.

TheoriginalLEM · 11/12/2015 20:16

oooh, DS, i thought they banned you

DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease · 11/12/2015 20:19

I think that even less people being able to afford rents would create distinct ghetto style areas. For that reason I think that controlling rent prices would create a fairer society than letting rents increase indiscriminately whilst simultaneously reducing and capping (in practical terms) the income and spending power of the poorest.

unlucky83 · 11/12/2015 20:31

Talk - first £10 a week phone?
I pay £5 a month for lots of minutes, texts and some data ...but do have WiFi at home however you can get unlimited data, texts and calls on giff gaff for £20 per month -with lots of options in between.... (And an unlocked basic smart phone for £40.)
(And DP would say get a bike (his cost £40), get fit and save a fortune ..he is doing the 12 mile round trip everyday and just talking about saving petrol money but personally in this weather I'd be wanting to get the bus...)
As to your second point - when I lived in London (left 15 or so years ago now) people who lived on Park Lane/Mayfair/St. James still got their flats and offices cleaned, shops were open, there was a petrol station on Park Lane (don't know if there still is) ...people still worked in the big hotels/restaurants.
I worked in catering - as a junior earned a pittance and worked near the Ritz - also worked in Mayfair for a while. I had friends with similar jobs who worked in the city. DP worked early mornings (6am start) near Oxford Street...and we all made our way in from Zone 2/3/4 ...cos we couldn't have afforded to live any closer...(and by a pittance I mean pre NMW low wages - so £5-6kpa)

In fact I used to get the night bus sometimes and you could see the cleaning staff making their way in....

Katarzyna79 · 11/12/2015 20:39

so what of those who cant work, you said blanket rule of 500 for all. Theres no way in hell my mil or dad could work, they have dementia mil doesn't even know what time it is after 2 minutes of asking me or what day, so how would she survive?

I care for her and my dad so what would I get nothing but tough look after them and go work it cant be done I don't have 4 pairs of hands, and I'm not a machine.

I have a big house too need it to fit in the elders and my kids, that wouldn't cover half the rent. Now if the state want to pay for the elders care great pay for it, it will cost thousands compared to what I do, not 500 quid.

500 is ill thought through wont work for most people.

Katarzyna79 · 11/12/2015 20:41

also is it fair to give a single person 500 quid and those with larger families 500 quid, its a stupid idea.

FannyTheChampionOfTheWorld · 11/12/2015 20:56

Isn't £500 a month more than you get now if you're a carer katarzyna?

IrenetheQuaint · 11/12/2015 21:17

The problem is that the basic amount people need to live on if you include housing is more than £500 a month... and to afford that, let alone anything higher, you would need to massively raise income tax, which would reduce the incentive to work and drive some higher earners out of the country.

TalkinPeace · 11/12/2015 21:41

unlucky
I pay £5 a month for lots of minutes, texts and some data ...but do have WiFi at home however you can get unlimited data, texts and calls on giff gaff for £20 per month -with lots of options in between.... (And an unlocked basic smart phone for £40.)
Home?
Contract?
Wifi?
smart phone?
get real love
how on EARTH does a homeless person get a contract phone : they take whatever PAYG they can get an it is their ONLY media
other than free wifi at the Library when its open

TalkinPeace · 11/12/2015 21:42

unlucky
You left London 15 years ago : nuff said

Katarzyna79 · 11/12/2015 21:47

yes fanny but 500 quid wouldn't even cover my rent and bills. if I went work full time who would care for my kids and mil and dad? I suppose childcare costs are to be covered with 500 quid too

Not too worried thankfully I have a husband who works hard to provide

wouldn't it be worse than the American system and people work their butts off over there and still come up short. what next scrap the nhs oh wait Cameron is heading that way isn't he?

Cherrypi · 11/12/2015 21:49

Talkinpeace yes it would have to be more but the idea is interesting right?

VestalVirgin · 11/12/2015 21:58

Why does everyone get hung up about the sum of 500? Isn't this about the idea, not the sum? Maybe 500 is not enough for the UK and it would have to be 1000, but the concept would be the same.

I imagine that people who need more because of disability would still be able to apply for additional benefits. But there would be a lot of bureaucracy removed for those who just don't have work.

I suppose childcare costs are to be covered with 500 quid too

They would be covered with your income? How do you cover your childcare costs now?

unlucky83 · 11/12/2015 22:02

Talk - Giff gaff is PAYG - you buy Goody bags -no contract involved
Giffgaff vouchers can be bought in most shops providing epay, payzone or paypoint services. You can also find them in Post Offices and most supermarkets.
And we are talking about living on £500 pm NOT being homeless etc
And that is a £40 one off payment for a smart phone ...one that use Giff gaff SIM/vouchers...or in fact any provider

I don't think it me who doesn't live in the real world...

TalkinPeace · 11/12/2015 22:17

unlucky
his phone is Vodafone
it cost £7.50
£40 in any week would not leave enough money for food
he sleeps on a concrete floor or a grave stone
and we are a "civilised" society

unlucky83 · 11/12/2015 22:20

And BTW -I left London for 2 reasons

  1. Because what I wanted to do didn't pay very well ... even with the London Weighting I would have struggled to get anywhere half decent to live and have had a pretty shit standard of living.
  2. I wanted to work for someone who was based several hundred miles away
So I relocated...not going to pretend it wasn't a big step, it was. I was pretty sure I could never have gone back. I left behind all the contacts I had who I could have got casual work with if I needed to, I left all my friends behind (except DP -his choice) and I haven't regretted it for a second. Within a year I had bought my first house - no more renting! - 3 beds, two gardens and fantastic views ....for half what it cost for my ex-flatmate to buy a one bedroom ex council flat on one of the roughest estates. In fact DP could never have afforded to start his own business if we had stayed in London - the cost of everything here is more realistic... I would highly recommend it...
unlucky83 · 11/12/2015 22:42

Cross post -if he had £500 a month would he be better or worse off?
I think you are mixing up the issues - this £500 (or whatever) a month payment to everyone
and people who are truly desperate now ...for who I have the utmost sympathy ...and I would agree it is not acceptable in our civilised society...
(I would seriously look at his mobile deal - just checked you can still get a basic unlocked phone for £15 (Tescos) ...one you can use with any provider...if it is costing him £40 pm for calls and it could cost him £5 -maybe £10 ...the £15 is worth saving up for (or even loaning to him -seeing as he should be able to pay you back in phone saving in less than a month... )

cleaty · 11/12/2015 22:44

£500 a month is about what I would I get on JSA and housing benefit if I was single.

Also it is per person. If you are caring for an adult, both of you would get the CI. And £500 a month is more than carers currently get.