Not to accept that my DD is 'really a boy'?

[Scootering]

This is actually about my DSD, who is nearly 18.

Over the last few months she has told us she is 'trans' and wants us to call her 'David' (not this name exactly...).

Her father and I (and her mother) think this is crazy. She has always been perfectly happy as a girl, long hair and dresses, not remotely tomboyish. This has all happened since she has met a group of very 'out' gay men and I think she really wants to be like them. Her idea of 'being a boy' is to be (frankly) a raving queen (very camp) with flowery shirts and pink hair.

We have NOT started to refer to her as 'our son' or called her 'him' or 'David'. She says we are ruining her life and will never accept her.

We have said we will not do these things until she has been through proper counselling to discuss this. We paid for her to start this but she gave it up after the first session because she 'knows who she is' and 'doesn't need to discuss it'.

So we are now at a impasse. She says we are ruining her life. We are really not remotely convinced we should be acting like she's a boy.

Are we being unreasonable? Are we torturing her? I'd really be grateful for advice because we are finding it all really embarassing and difficult (particularly with elderly parents).

What if she came out as gay?

If she came out as lesbian, then the younger children would ... see that what mommy said is true and they can really do whatever they want as girls, including falling in love with other girls.

There would be no confusion.

Whereas "You can do whatever you like as a girl, except wearing flowery shirts and having pink hair, you have to be male for that" is rather confusing.

It is not as bad as "You have to be male to wear comfortable shoes and use no make up", but still rather confusing to children who have been brought up to not believe in gender.

I didn't suggest that David should not be called David, quite the opposite in fact.

Being gay or straight is almost exclusively about sexual and romantic relationships. The people who primarily validate that are sexual and romantic partners. They are the people we develop our sexuality with, not out siblings. The role of wider family members is to be accepting of those current of potential relationships and support the family member in developing those relationships.

That is an entirely different thing to gender. The people who primarily validate our gender are those we are closest to. We develop our gender primarily within the family and within friendships. It has an impact on our siblings in a very direct way that being gay does not.

Why people compare gender to sexual orientation, I do not know, but they do not seem to be particularly similar to me. One is about sexual and romantic relationships, so by definition has limited impact on sibling relationships.

Quite apart from all of that, we live in a massively transphobic society, and younger siblings are going to have to be protected from that, and so taking the approach that having a trans sibling is no big deal is divorced from reality. That doesn't mean someone shouldn't come out as trans, but they younger children will need help coping with the consequences, not just the trans person.

Completely agree with MrsDeVere
Home should be a place where DC can be themselves - they do not have to put up a pretence. Life outside is tough, home should be the haven.
As long as they are not torturing pets or younger siblings, let them be who they are.
Why not call her David?
If that is the hardest stuff you have to encounter, lucky you!
Amazes me when parents fight battles they really don't need to.

taking the approach that having a trans sibling is no big deal is divorced from reality

Not my reality, having recently lived it. It wasn't a big deal after the initial change and getting used to it, for any of us.

Scootering, I don't think you are being unreasonable. You sound like you are just being concerned.

My daughter earlier this year started identifying as transgender. Told me she was a gay boy. Based on how well I know my daughter, I felt that this wasn't who she really was.

I have since learned that it is somewhat trendy to identify as transgender. There is a lot of advice in certain online communities (Tumblr, reddit, and Youtube videos) that can convince teensparticularly ones that are uncomfortable in their own skins. Depression, anxiety, being on the autism spectrum, not feeling comfortable with society's idea of gender, being socially awkward and bulliedall are things that are commonly cited as making someone vulnerable to believe that they may be the opposite sex. And, that "transitioning" will alleviate this discomfort, these feelings.

I suggest you try to find a therapist who will help her understand the root cause--one with an open mind, that doesn't automatically assume she is transgender. I was fortunate enough to find a therapist to help my daughter with her underlying problems, and now, after way too many months, she is back to identifying as female and comfortable with her body.

I found the 4thwavenow blog to be a lifesaver. A lot of parents in your situation congregate there. There is also a new website called www.transgendertrend.com/ that has research articles to help you sort through fact from fiction.

I wish you luck in this! Hang in there.

You haven't had that experience though.

You are not a sibling of a trans child.

Sorry, that was to Elsa.

Nope but my dc are. It was not a big deal for them because I didn't make it into one.

MrsDeVere, lots of children do not adapt.

That's why we have services like CAMHS. Because situations that some children cope with really well, others really struggle with.

And certain situations are ones where lots of children do struggle, like bereavement as you mention.

The young person in this case is not just wearing a flowery shirt and calling themselves Dave. They are saying that they identify as trans.

I don't think it is helpful to say the equivalent of worse things happen at sea!

"It was not a big deal for them because I didn't make it into one."

Your child being trans is not, primarily, about you and how fantastic your relationship and support is.

Your other children's emotional state, is not primarily, about you.

This thread is not about you.

And that's what I mean about a narrative.

No, you're right, it was about them, and they were, and still are absolutely fine.

I think as others have said, there is an element of needing to think about the long-term repercussions of how you handle this.

Referring to DSD as David/him is not going to do a great deal of harm however things pan out, being unsupportive could irrevocably change your relationship. Having said that I think you could argue that if you respect her/his wishes in that way that they should respect yours and continue the counselling for the foreseeable future.

I can understand how you feel. A friend of ours married a trans-woman last year and is now living as a woman too and has started hormone treatment.
DH has known her for 40+ years and I have known her for 20+ years and there has never been any indication of gender issues, but there have been health issues which I suspect may be easier to deal with as a woman than a man. It's difficult not to wonder if it's all happening for the right reasons but at the end of the day it's not our business and if she's happy then so be it.

With regard to the other family members - the older generation may well surprise you and I think honesty is always the best policy with little ones. If they are really small all they need to know is that DSD has decided to go with David/him because that is what they like best - there's no need to go into further details.

If s/he really is feeling like a man

Except what, exactly is that supposed to mean? They might want to be more like their gay male friends, but given that they are female, that isn't an option unless they can convince themselves and others that they are really male in the head, or should have been male, or somesuch (whatever variety of brain-sex, born in the wrong body trans theory they happen to believe in).

There are resources out there for parents of trans kids who don't all subscribe to the usual trans dogma. Like this blog 4thWaveNow. Not enough though, I think there is a real need for a breadth of opinions on this issue!

She needs to engage with counselling, remind her that no medical professionals will even consider supporting a transition eithout extensive counselling first.

Excellent posts from RedToothBrush

One is about sexual and romantic relationships, so by definition has limited impact on sibling relationships.

I'm afraid that is certainly not the case for many gay and lesbian people who have been rejected by their siblings and parents when they came out.

no medical professionals will even consider supporting a transition eithout extensive counselling first. That isn't strictly the case nowadays, given that many trans people can get hormone treatment after a relatively short time. And the effects of T aren't always reversible, as resources created by FTM detransitioners show.

If she's doing it for attention than indifferently humoring her will make it stop sooner. If she's really trans, then humoring her will make her transition easier.

Personally, I'd swipe her little teen persecution rug out from under her feet and call her Dave. Take away her cause of righteous outrage, and she'll either get over it sooner, or come to terms with being trans sooner. Either way, nothing is more obnoxious than a teen screaming you don't know me humoring her will only do good more than it will harm.

I am so glad there are voices of experience on this thread, like Elsa. There is so much hostility directed against trans people IRL. How lovely to see a story like Elsa's, a story of love and support.

Somedyke, surely what is having an impact on the relationship is homophobia, not the sexual and romantic feelings of the lesbian or gay man.

This is not the same as somebody wanting to be treated by family members in a specific gendered way.

I think folks are getting carried away here with what they think/believe & there are some dangerously ignorant views being expressed.

The important thing is for the OP's DSD to feel she is being listened to, regardless of where the experience takes her, family therapy will help them all cope with it.

David has to take some responsibility too, and meet the parents halfway in understanding they are doing the best they can, given the circumstances.

Surgery & hormones are not handed out like sweeties, it's a long painful business & not all trans- people go down the surgical route for a variety of reasons, sometimes dressing as the preferred gender and identifying as such is enough.

It's bloody hard on the family and no matter how you might react to others children coming out as trans when its your own its a damn sight more difficult and a real rollercoaster of emotions.

I don't have personal experience to share but yes, yes, yes to there being a trend toward being transgender - in my daughters (17) social circle there is a huge upturn in defining yourself as a fluid sexuality (lots of pan/bi/gender queer talk) and there are 2 students that I know of who have stated that they are transgender. This seems to go hand in hand with a great deal more media exposure and a sense of community in being LGBT felt online and in lots of 'teen' spaces.

My main concern is that the withholding of hormones by HCP is being slated as prejudice and so they are being provided more readily but teenagers are very vulnerable, that feeling of not belonging, being different...didn't we all feel that way until adulthood and realized that everyone felt that? God forbid a drastic step is taken at 18/19 that actually is a huge mistake but not easily reversible.

I got married very young and truthfully I don't think I would have gone through with it if my family had not made it clear that they disapproved. I would refrain from making statements condemning this decision, don't fuel a feeling of persecution which is becoming almost a badge of honour among teens. Call your DSD David and play down your reaction. If its a phase then you will see soon enough. If not, then you won't alienate your DSD further

Yes. You are being very unreasonable. He is exploring where he feels his place is in this world - respect that. This isn't about you, and it's not his job to make your life easier by continuing to live as a woman if that isn't how he feels.