New nursery expects all potential pupils be potty trained, even the 2 year olds.

[FundraisingPTABitch]

That's it really. I'm new to this part of town, and so is this nursery.

When I enquired with the admin about this policy, they said every potential pupil must be potty trained.

AIBU to think this nursery can just fuck off? I will potty train my little child when both the child and I are both ready.

Ludicrous. Irresponsible! Elitist!

I was an older mum with DS2, (41). Toilet trained him at 2.4 or so, like I had his much older siblings, using the intensive approach over three days.

When I turned up at playgroup with him wearing pants and going to the toilet, all the other, younger, Mums were genuinely shocked. There was an air of disapproval and mutterings about, "Waiting until they are ready".

Fashions change in childcare. I can remember being berated as a young Mum, by older women, for having my 18 month old child in nappies.

But I do think that many people have been sold a lie, and it is not difficult to train the average two year old. Nappies cost a lot of money.

cleaty
You have some anecdotal evidence about not seeing children in nappies at school back in the 80’s.
In the 80’s these were not seen by you because they were not allowed in schools or nurseries unless they were potty trained.

A few posts later you say that SN children in nappies were in special schools. Fine but now they are not, now they are at mainstream school.

You refuse to believe that the 0.2 percent of 4 year olds in nappies is mostly the result of more integration. Instead claiming parents are potty training later.

But the thing is, you have provided no evidence of this at all.

x2boys Should we keep up the facade or outright admit that we just plum forgot to potty train?
I was going to start at age 4 but Bargain Hunt was on and i didn't want to miss it.

Jason, there are many, many older Mumsnetters on this thread telling you that toilet training took place at a much younger age in the past. Do you think we are all making it up? Why would we? Lots of things were done differently in the past: sleep training, weaning, drinking from a cup, tying shoelaces, walking to school unaccompanied are just some examples.

Jason, there are many, many older Mumsnetters on this thread telling you that toilet training took place at a much younger age in the past. Do you think we are all making it up? Why would we?

Not at all, I think they really feel it did start earlier...

However, You will find plenty of people still train before 2 and are still trained by 3.5.... the average hasn't changed.

Do you think we are all making it up?

I could ask you if you likewise think people who are saying when they "Trained" their child was wetting / messing 5 or 6 times a day for 6 months are making it up.

I don't think anything has really changed, the way it'sdone is different, but the resulting ages are not.

might it be helpful to say that in the past children were out if nappies at an earlier age (for reasons that had nothing to do with the actual child), rather than that they we're toilet trained at an earlier age?

Interesting that so many people insist that not being child-led in this issue is right or better, when in general MN seems like a fairly child-led place (co-sleeping, baby wearing, BLW etc).

I'm 43 and I could read before I was fully potty trained (admittedly I was an early reader), so I don't think "all children in the 70s were out of nappies by two unless they had special needs" was anything remotely like a universal (I do not have SN), though they may well have started trying earlier. I still remember getting a prized Lego box as a reward for being dry all night for a week.

I also don't understand the "if LAZY MODERN PARENTS could just be bothered, ALL TWO YEAR OLDS CAN DO IT" and/or "IF YOU LEAVE IT TOO LATE IT WILL BE A BATTLE OF WILLS". DS1 essentially potty trained himself around 2.5, despite wearing the LAZY TODDLER'S FRIEND THE DISPOSABLE NAPPY, was always happy to sit on the potty even before he was fully trained, etc. etc. DS2, despite being offered the potty from an early age as well, identical parenting approach, has no interest whatsoever and he's just turned three. His attitude at the moment is that he has now sat on the toilet once, ergo has done it and doesn't need to do it again. I personally have no interest in engaging in a "I am the boss of you and I say you need to go to the toilet" struggle, so I'm biding my time for now.

Interesting that so many people insist that not being child-led in this issue is right or better, when in general MN seems like a fairly child-led place

Possibly because in evolutionary terms the desire to feel dry is one of the big drivers of TT? And new generation nappies interfere with that. A child isn't motivated to lead if their 'nudges' are absent.

A poster many pages back hit the nail on the head:

I think there are a lot of people on this thread with rose tinted glasses in! I have been a childcare professional for almost 40 years and in all that time the average age of a child being toilet trained has always been 2.5-3.5

The average age has not changed.

But, as per my previous post, my DS1 was motivated to lead despite disposable nappies. I don't think it's the case that "if you use disposable nappies you'll have to force them out of them".

No, there are probably several factors, of course.

Where people are saying it was normal to train at 2 previously are they saying that it was normal to train between the child turning 2 and turning 3 or do people mean it was normal to have trained them prior to the 2nd birthday. As I said earlier my eldest is now in her 20's she was trained at 2years and probably 4 months (summer so outside lots). I have a child currently in nursery she trained at about the same age so again when she was 2 in fact thinking about her nursery there are none of the 3 year olds still in nappies so children do appear on the whole to still be training at the age of 2

Possibly because in evolutionary terms the desire to feel dry is one of the big drivers of TT? And new generation nappies interfere with that.

I can tell you outright, from my own experience, No nappy leaves you feeling dry. Once you pee in it it’s wet and it feels damp too, extremely uncomfortable in fact, especially when sitting.

I was well out of nappies before 2, as were my classmates in maternelle. It was, and still is, considered that the teachers were not supposed to spend their days dealing with dirty nappies, but teach us to form our letters, and begin to read. They would deal with accidents, of course, but are supposed to be just that, accidents.

but I still do not know how to tie my shoelaces the correct way . Go figures...

There's a world of difference, (in terms of moisture trapped next to the skin and chafe) between an old school terry towelling square and a modern disposable Jason. Even the elastic on the frilly pants that went over the top could be quite nasty, if you weren't vigilant.

goddammit pirate i was watching homes under the hammer and just couldnt be bothered!

I definitely think it has more to do with change in parents lifestyles. My mums generation tended not to work, they stayed in or near the house most of the time, they often didnt drive or if they did they certainly didnt have their own cars. I remember friends with younger siblings who lived in the next street coming to play and their mum would bring their potty with them and then follow them around or have them sit on it for most of the visit.

I for one could not be arsed living like this, i work part time and i enjoy taking my children out to a wide variety of places. Call me lazy if you want but i also think a child would much prefer to be running round having fun than being forced to sit on a potty throughout the day. so i waited until they could tell me they needed to go and could hold it for the time it took to get to the toilet, luckily for me this happened at around 2 1/2.

when i hear older generation parents mocking later training i get the distinct notion that they are either jealous or feel guilty ?

I am by no means giving my children free reign in parenting themselves; but at the same time I am not interested in a struggle that they aren't ready for.

My 1st child was ready when I started. He therefore got it instantly. To this day he has never had an accident. Yes, I understand how boasty I am right now.

This nursery does not not know when my child will be ready to pt, therefore I don't think it's fair for them to exclude my child on the basis of being potty trained.

I hope all their two year olds have tonnes and tonnes of pee accidents.

Because there does seem to be some proof (though I can't access the full article) of toilet training be delayed,

That is about the changes in the way potty training happens, that it begins later, it doesn't give any indication of the age that the children were Trained.

at the end of the day most kids will be trained by 3.5 some earlier some later in that yr it is very rare for reception aged children to start school in nappies unless there is a medical or disability reason i think its reasonable for two yr olds still to be in nappies i cant wait for thre day we are free of them even though we now get NHS nappies they are horrible big bulky things and it certainly isnt easier changing an older child nor is it discreet.

I'm trying to potty train my 2 year old although I've more chance of winning the euromillions! Currently he wees in the bath or on the floor! 😔