In tears

[G1veMeStrength]

Fucking parliament. You utter bastards. You're going to kill people and it won't stop anything.

Could be existing operations, seaside. BBC said they were due out just after vote announced.

I feel sorry for the innocent people of Syria. This will cause more refugees that no one seems to want to help. Let's hope those in power now will be more willing to help thoses fleeing for their lives x

Philip Hammond said the air strikes will begin 'very quickly'. Overnight I'm guessing then

MissDread I'm certainly not against what is already happening, but I'd like to see a proper UN force committed to wiping out Isis. Air strikes alone simply won't achieve that. I'm not a fan of committing lives and public money to something that simply won't work. If Cameron could have convinced me that they would follow air strikes with real action, rather than relying on local armies, many of whom do not share our ultimate goals, my opinion on this vote would be very different.

If they are going to bomb are they going to provide more refugee aid, evacuation and help for those innocent people? This should be part of the plan if they are going ahead.

It just makes me think of this...

Decisions, decisions. :o

Hilary Benn's speech is crap. It's true it's all about fascism though - from and for us! They're plotting the same evil shit they did in Europe to those they don't like in Western countries (including previous victims and those who fought the Nazis because they've kept tabs on what is going on and who did what) . They're pissed off about low Western birthrates even though it was all the crimes they did which has scared everyone off from having kids (who can compete with fascists?)

We should be investigating where ISIS are getting their arms from and to whom they are selling their oil before resorting to bombing.

I'm fucked off. Really fucked off.

This is what Hermann Göring had to say about war:

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Göring at the Nuremberg Trials

This is exactly the tactics used by Cameron and the press of this country, rushing into dropping bombs under false pretences and calling those who disagree with warmongering terrorist sympathisers. The British public are being played by people who wish to make money from war.

imust how do you know that's not being addressed?

How do you know it is?

It seems that all is not rosy in the Caliphate;

europe.newsweek.com/isis-are-facing-cash-crunch-caliphate-333422#.VgK5vpR6ZEY.twitter

'in tears'
I disagreed with the Iraq war, really passionately. I disagreed with bombing Syria before (when it would have actually been helping ISIS) but I can't disagree with this.
Get a group of women together to negotiate with ISIS ...that would be interesting - maybe they would turn them into sex slaves or send them off to fend for themselves, unarmed where packs of hyenas hunt so they get eaten alive ...or flog them for not being completely covered and chaperoned ....or stone them to death (with help from their fathers) for being unfaithful ...or....
That's what is happening to the civilians (women) in Raqqa at the moment...that's who I am saving my tears for...the women who had similar freedoms to what we have who are now living like that. And if there is any chance that bombing can help liberate ALL the civilians then so be it.

" A series of unforeseen events, including the fall in the price of oil and the intensification of U.S.-led airstrikes on oil facilities and fighters, has squeezed the group's revenues"

This can't be true as everyone says airstrikes don't work!!!

unlucky, i saw that interview to,sent a shiver down me especially about being eaten by the hyenas

"If they are going to bomb are they going to provide more refugee aid, evacuation and help for those innocent people? This should be part of the plan if they are going ahead."

I doubt there'll be much difference to the refugee flow (the bombing has been underway for ages, all that is changing is that our planes can now cross the border just as those of the other bombing nations do).

unlucky83, you missed that if considered too old to be a sex slave, you'll end up in a mass grave. Or you might be given to children who are learning how to behead.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/12/02/labour-mps-who-voted-for-_n_8703190.html?1449102163&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

A war is upon us wether we wish it so or not, and obviously any sane person wishes not. However there is an ideology abroad in the world that wishes us ill. Not just us, but our children and our children's future. Not just our institutions but the very ideals of which are all heir to.

I suspect the vote tonight will make very little tactical impact to the situation on the ground in the short to medium term. The local forces on the ground are likely too fragmented and too disparate to make a real pushback to Islamic State. However an attack on British soil is inevitable now, and we must stand with our allies. Had I been an MP I would have voted in favour of air strikes.

If you disagree, brilliant say so. If you think I'm wrong, or callous in someway fair enough that is your perogative, and right. I can't fault a single MP who voted against the motion, in following their conscience. I've not been inspired or impressed by the goings on at Westminster in a good long while. Whilst I disagreed with him Corbyn asked all the right questions, and asked them well.

Democracy and its processes whilst all too often are found wanting and imperfect are nevertheless a precious thing. I'm glad we have it.

seaside that interview had a big impact on me too - including how her son was being radicalised. But that isn't the only source of information and there are even worse things happening - as trojan says - mass graves of old women.
And I agree we do need to cut off their revenue - I read a report about their soldiers starting to desert but at the moment they still get paid more and have more perks than they would as a civilian. And if they feel the financial pressure it is the civilians who will suffer most...less of an incentive to desert.
And it isn't just oil money - they are selling off antiquities they are capturing - they show videos of them destroying them but actually most of them are being sold ...maybe the collectors who are buying them need to take some responsibility too (although another way of looking at it is that at least they are saving world heritage.)

I think the Labour MP's voting list is very interesting.

I was very disappointed in Hilary Benn's speech invoking the language of 'fascism'; using emotion rather than logic. It's like Cameron throwing insults at Corbyn and then refusing to apologise.

Making a decision to extend bombing is a decision worthy of respect. That means there should have been answers to all Corbyn's questions because they will not disappear simply because they've been ignored. And they are no less valid for being asked by Corbyn.

It means there should have been an explanation of an exit strategy. And, at the very least, there should have been a rational explanation of why people being attacked in Paris means we need to extend bombing into Syria. Because there is nothing to suggest that more planes in Syria would mean home-grown terrorist sympathisers would decide not to act.

When the language of discourse is replaced with emotive language and insults, it's clear that there is no reasoned explanation for these strikes. I am sad tonight but I'm also angry. I'm angry that certain of our politicians have so little respect for their position and our electorate that they think they can use emotion and hyperbole to manipulate the debate. I'm angry that we never seem to learn the lessons of the past.

I've been reading the thread and finding it interesting (and nodding in agreement with RealityCheque) and then fuck me, there's someone else quoting Goring!

The OP of this thread quoted him too.

It's dredging the barrel when someone starts calling on that cunt to back up their fucking opinion. Are you thinking it adds weight to what you're saying ThatsBetter?

Yeah, because Goring spoke such sense didn't he?