Nativity and child protection issue

[DrMum83]

AIBU?

An acquaintance on Facebook (girl I went to primary school with) has posted a video of her child in the school nativity play. Her mother (the GM) has then shared it on her Facebook. The acquaintance commented that 'I know some people are against videos of children but it's largely focused on DS and its a sad world we live in if I can't do that'.

One of her friends commented that there are child protection issues surrounding this and that at her daughter's school, they are specifically requested to not video the play or post on social media photos of other kids. My acquaintance retorted with 'the headmaster announced at the beginning of the play that video taking is allowed as long as no parents present object'

This rang alarm bells for me.

A) as part of my role at work, I am involved with safeguarding children. Children can be found on fb and hunted down by parents when in care and this can be disastrous.
B) 'no parents present object' what about the parents not present? And what about those sharing the video forward (as in this case)?

I have managed to find the name of school and have typed a letter to headmaster. He may think I'm an interfering busybody but would I be unreasonable to send it?!

Thoughts?

Ooh yes, you'd send copies to your second cousin's ex husband in Canada and a few to that person from that course you went on in 2007, and some to a few parents in your other child at a different school's class - used to cost a fortune!

I don't give consent for dds pics to be taken, not because of cp issues, but because she doesn't want them taken.
Every nativity it's announced that not all parents have given consent for images to be taken so nobody can take them. Five mins into the play there's always several moaning that "prissy mothers won't stop me, I'll take pics of my child if I want"ignoring the request and snapping away, uploading directly to Facebook.teachers see it and do fuck all.

It must be so frightening in the cases were your child's safety is at risk because of such selfish arseholes.

If anything can be described as "hysteria" it's those talking of having freedom impacted on because they can't take pics. If freedoms means that you're free to take pics of other peoples children to put on your Facebook, then I'll happily give that up so that all dc can be safe and take part.

Astounded that after reading the experiences of people in here, some posters still think their rights to take pics and upload to sm, trump a child's right to being included in school activities and to be safe doing so.

My dad had a child who he abandoned when I was a kid, as an adult I moved a long way away and after dad's death,my brother tried to look up our missing sister,new knew a few small details about he searched her name on Facebook and turns out she lives very close to me and is very good friends with someone who I am good friends with. It really is a small world.

Brief update on the school thing today. When we went in the children then filed in and stood on the stage - all of them - and loads of parents took photographs of the whole group, as people were still coming in. One guy had a video camera on a stand.
I was at the back so I could see all the screens lit up.

About five to ten minutes later the HT started speaking to everyone and the second thing he said was about photographs and filming and social media - he was excellent, he really drove it home and after that I don't think anyone even picked up a camera.

Sadly it was too late by then though as most of them who had wanted to film had probably already done so, and had plenty of time to.

As I came into the venue before all this, the teacher I saw earlier, and asked about it, started speaking to him about this issue and telling him he had to say something - so she clearly saw me and thought, fuck, better do something.

I'm appalled at the lack of forethought, and at the same time, massively impressed at what he did off the cuff. He's a good bloke and very sensible and he did what he could.

There's a fairly big risk that someone who filmed them will already have put the photos online. I wouldn't know that, and they may still do so regardless of the speech. It's too late to do anything now, but next time I shan't be able to let ds take part.

It goes to show that sometimes our children's welfare isn't compatible with the bigger picture, with the popular MO and expectations, even with a good school and caring staff.

Bit depressing isn't it.

Gordon Bennet, more froth than a cheap cappuccino. is anyone saying that anyone should be able to take photos of their child or anyone else's in a school play even if a parent has said no on the necessary pre entry paperwork? If no parent has said no then parents are allowed to take photos of their child. The same as taking photos at a theme park or restaurant and so on. If I was a HT and parents had expressly said no on the paperwork I would warn the audience, before the children came in, that they would be asked to leave if suspected of taking photos. If no one had said no on the paperwork why would it matter. The nursery that sent the letter out were actually being very courteous by doing so and there was no obligation to do so. Out of interest what do parents who don't like their kids being on social media do about all the other places they may be photographed like on rides. I have brought pictures of my children on rides that clearly have other children in too. And put them on FB. How do those parents handle those scenarios as well?

headinhands

As has been explained many times on this thread, a photo of a primary school is very identifiable as to location. A theme park is not, since people visit them from miles around, and do weekend trips to them etc. I have in the past requested parents delete pictures from their phone at soft play that include my child when I have noticed them taking them.

Foster carers / adopters / people feeing domestic violence have to tread a very fine line. We have to balance risks against giving our children as normal a life as possible.

We can't never go out in the street. But we can say that within their school they should be able to be like the other children.

Unfortunately many schools are not solid on following the permission forms, as many of the previous posters have identified. My children's own school is excellent now, but was not so a few years back.

Schools do also wish to permit parents to take shots of important things like nativities. Surprisingly us adopters and foster carers also wish to for our children.

But irresponsible parents then posting whole group shots on facebook when explicitly asked not to ends up building unnecessary stress for families like mine. Filming should be fine, but not posting on social media for the world and his wife to see.

Froth

Children placed in danger.
Vulnerable families attacked.
Mothers raped.
Added stress for foster carers and adopters.
Soldiers kidnapped and tortured or executed.

All incidents posted on this thread, not "what if" scenarios.

And you can dismiss them all as "froth" 😡

I'll tell you what is "froth"; it's the inane, vacuous postings on social media of "my angel in her nativity - how blessed I am" that virtually everyone rolls their eyes, clicks on "Like" to show willing, and passes on.
Then everyone forgets all about it...
...except the abusers and terrorists.

Tanith - best post on this thread.

headinhands the majority of this thread haven't objected to parents or carers taking photos or filming.

It's the sharing on SM that is potentially very dangerous. Even for the children it doesn't create danger for, it's highly discourteous to put pictures of other people - children or adults - on SM without their express permission.

Don't know who they are because they're strangers who just happened to be on the same ride as your children? Fine. Just don't post their picture, or crop it.

My friend has always complained about not being allowed to film her kids in plays, and says that the children who cant be photographed shouldn't take part in the play.

I think that is very unfair to those children, to be excluded from the play, so totally disagree with her.

My XH chose earlier this year not to see his DD any more. I have since withdrawn my permission from school for DD to be used in any photos on the website, or to be photographed anywhere. This is because I do not want XH looking at photos of her. If he wants to see her he can damn well see her in real life. I would certainly not expect her to be excluded from events just because of that.

Last year at the Nativity they announced that parents could take a picture at the end and if anybody didn't want their children in it, to remove them from the cast lineup first. That was an acceptable compromise for most parents there.

There are children at the school who live with grandparents, who are adopted/fostered, and some who have to be kept away from their fathers who don't know where they live.

The rules are there for a very good reason, although I do understand that it upsets a lot of parents.

Our school say no photos on FB but give you time after the production to take photos of 'your' sheep of wise man or whatever. I have no reasons for my kids not to be on FB but I never put their photos on except on a closed page for family only. I would be mightily pissed off if the appeared on anyone else's page.

Definitely doesn't sound right to me

how do you know if people have uploaded photos though? I'm not even on fb so I can't check.

That's part of the problem Deirdre, you have no way of knowing what happens to the photos once they're taken. Even if the schools says 'no SM' that doesn't mean they're not being posted. And the school wouldn't necessarily know either.

So the only guaranteed way of not letting the photos end up on line is to not let them be taken.

..and what vcan the school actually do if they are posted on SM

"Soldiers kidnapped and tortured or executed."

As a result of a nativity play being put on SM, I don't think so. That is just froth and does not belong alongside the salient points on this thread.

Argh, just saw on my facebook today a mother posted some very clear videos of her daughters nativity play. You could clearly see about 12 other little ones in them and she titled it with the name of the school. She is a lawyer and well educated and I would have thought well clued in on these issues. But I guess not. Maybe this issue just needs clear explanation to parents. I would like to have videos of my little ones at these events but am happy to not post on any social media.

We have yet to have our nativity etc, so haven't been told about pictures/videos at our school/nursery. But as I am friends with most if not all of the mums I'm sure they would have no objection to pictures etc being shared & if they did have a problem & asked for it to be removed I would have no issues with that. My son & a few of his classmates recently appeared in our local paper, this picture was later shared on social media with parents being tagged & sharing etc, I had no issues with either of these but if I did I take great comfort in knowing that the other parents would Listen & remove if I asked & vice versa.
It is a video from a proud parent, it's not as if it's anything dodgy! & im pretty sure if any parents of the children involved had any issues they could bring it up for themselves.

And what if I don't want to explain my kid's business to half the school?

Hawest have you read the thread?

You're assuming the children who's photos you're sharing have no reason not to be on sm and would take them down if there were - its too late by then ask first.

"It is a video from a proud parent, it's not as if it's anything dodgy!" Suggests you haven't read the thread, its not just about the 'paedo' angle, there are issues regarding children fleeing dv, under protection orders and in foster care/have been adopted etc and may have family of origin trying to find them. There's no way the OP (and by the sounds of it the person sharing) can know if there are any of these category of children in that video. Frankly it sounds as if the person sharing cares only for her 'right' to take and share that video regardless of the possibly fatal consequences to these children and their families!

I'm really shocked to read some of these posts! At my dc's school they allow us to take pictures but not put them on social media and as far as I have seen (fb friends with several school mums) everyone respects that. I think everyone understands the reasons that it could cause problems and that if the school found out that someone had posted pictures on facebook they would just ban pictures altogether which would affect everyone. How awful that others are not so considerate!

Pitythepontipines : Then either you didn't read the comment from the sister of a serving member of the Armed Forces or you don't believe her?

"As a result of a nativity play being put on SM"
The original comment dismissed the whole thread as "froth". That thread includes the post about the Armed Forces.
Don't go making up straw men to support your argument.

About 15 years ago (before the days of social media)I heard about a mother who was concerned about being tracked down via her DC's school nativity video. It turned out that the DC played an animal and was wearing a mask which covered the entire face so could not be recognised.

I don't think this would be practical unfortunately as a solution

I would post it. People don't realise how big an impact this could have on an child. I'm sure they only wanted to share with friends but unfortunetly it is a sad world we live and children need protecting.

I did read the post & I did understand but most people's profile are private & can only be seen by friends & friends of the people tagged, so if the parents had any of these issues they wouldn't have the people they are trying to hide from as friends, would they,..... As I said our local school is very close net & I am friends/speak to all the mums at my sons class so if they had any issues regarding this I would already know about it & would therefore take that into consideration. But as it goes there are non of those issues & therefore no reason for me not to post. Like I said I am unsure of the schools policy as it hasn't been brought up yet, if they have issues then fair enough but I know none of the parents have any issues. As we learnt when the picture appeared in the paper, it included six children & none of the parents knew it was actually going to be in the paper (were informed the photographer would be at the Halloween party but wasn't told our children specifically would be in it) but as we had signed the form asking if it was ok for photos to be taken & displayed the school had no issues & neither did we.

Also, our local paper has recently done a 'p1 classes' photo spread containing pictures of every pupil from every primary 1 group in our region, most of these were then shared on social media by proud parents, same goes for school photos, my brother recently got his p7 picture & it was shared on social media aswell, these all contain the 'identifiable' school & lots of other students, some of which are in foster care (well known in the town & school), yet there has been no child protection issues regarding any of these, all have been well shared, tagged, printed time & time again etc etc. I cut out my sons picture from the paper & have it displayed on my wall aswell as have it shared on social media, I also have my own school photos shared on social media as embarrassing school memories, again no issues other than the 'omg how bad did I look' 'did my mum actually let me leave the House looking like that' etc etc.