To be sick of this 'rough and tumble'

[midlifehope]

Need some advice on rough housing / rough and tumble. My dp and 4 year old engage in it most nights. Often, Ds initiates it but I think it's his ritualised way of getting affection, attention from his dad. It feels stressful and a bit out of control and invariably ends in my 4 year old son crying as he's bumped himself, or him running to me and saying 'daddy tried to hurt me', which sounds awful to me. When I try to tell them to be careful or stop fighting, dp tells me I'm being a manager and shuts the door of the room they're playing in in my face. I'm so sick of it. I feel like my family is broken. I feel like walking away sometimes.

I hate "rough and tumble" and "playfighting"

I never tolerated it when mine were young. It's just an excuse for the bigger, heavier person to dominate the other one

When it's a father regularlly making his 4yo son cry, it's very concerning

I'd go absolutely ape shit if my DP shut a door in my face. What a disrespectful bastard.

I'd go even more ape shit if he was doing so with the intention of hurting our son.

Fuck that.

I'm shocked at how many people have fond memories of play fighting! Err your dh should be modelling good behaviour (which does not include fighting) and obviously should not be hurting your young son and making him cry. The fact that this has happened once and he hasn't changed speaks volumes to me. I would not allow this for my ds.

We are not a rough and tumble household beyond some tickling/holding upside down type of play so I don't really identify with this phenomenon. But OP if it feels wrong to you, it probably is over the line, listen to your instincts.

What does your DP get out of this? Does he have a loving and caring relationship with your DS generally or is this the only one on one contact he has?

If that's what's happening Liz, the DP should be able to work out (as he's the adult) when that point is approaching so he can stop, given they're doing it most nights.

Whatever the reason for the DS regularly crying, I can't believe any parent wouldn't try to minimise the times their small child was crying when they're supposedly doing something 'fun'.

I really don't mind the rough and tumble it's the 'daddy hurt me' that's upsetting to me. What do I do with that?

I have a relative who rough-housed his son way more than I ever would my own, and the mom also got the 'daddy hurt me' deal. Yes, it can be a ritualised way of getting affection rather than an extra form of affection but I also picked up that, with our relatives, the kid going to mom to complain also became part of that ritual. Sometime it was real distress, sometimes it was the kids unconscious way of framing it into a family context.

He eventually turned down his rough housing when they had their second child, a daughter, and she took her provided family cues to become Zena Warrior Princess, biter, kicker, slapper, fist pounder of terror and mayhem.

Fucking hell, pp who think the 4 yo is the one that has a problem here need to do one.

Rough housing in any other place than Mumsnet would be seen as abuse

My dh and 19mo ds love to rough and tumble. Small ds has no sense of danger so dh is very careful to catch him and watch where his head is. Ds is a tough little boy. Doesn't cry unless he's actually hurt or over tired. Dh can wind him up a bit too much occasionally and I might say something if I think he hasn't spotted ds is getting over excited etc. He wold be horrified if he hurt ds or even if ds hurt himself while playing. Dh would never shut a door in my face.
However, does your son get upset easily? Does your dh, wrongly, think your ds needs toughening up? Trying to gauge intention.
Maybe he forgets your ds is still very young too?
Can you get fil or another family member to have a word?
Just trying to offer suggestions on motive, hope this doesn't come across wrong.

Only the OP knows whether it is sinister or clueless on the part of her DP.

Some parents are clueless, whether it is acceptable or not, they really have no idea. The DP could be thinking that the child is putting it on. Who knows.

But from the OPs posts I get the impression she feels its sinister. So why would you want that around your child at all then.

Aren't these the DC that end up constantly being told off in the playground because they are playing too rough because they don't understand own body rule?

Rough and tumble in this house tends to be DS pretending to beat the dragon/Orc/deadly character of the day, and if anyone gets hurt, which is rare, 9/10 it's a child. Because they always, always win. Because DH doesn't need to get his ego tickled by a small child's defeat.

And we enforce "no means no" "nobody gets to choose what happens to their body but them" so much in this house. If one person playing says stop, that's it; game over. In fact sensibly done, surely roughhousing play teaches them that? Kids play all sorts of silly games and learning when enough is enough for one party is a pretty useful skill.

What you describe, OP, is not normal in any way I recognise, and we do do rough play in this house. But it's for the benefit of the child, not the ego of the adult. Yours sounds very other.

When I say rough and tumble it's usually ds flinging himself at dh, or being flown in the air or tickled. Not wrestling. Ds sometimes starts throwing toys at dh and then it definitely ends. I guess you need to define rough housing. A friend and his son do rugby tackling type stuff, but more son tackling dad and dad catching him in a controlled manner.

DH plays rough and tumble with all 5 of our DC,but mostly with our 3DS's,the children initiate it more than DH does but he's never hurt any of the children and they've never manged to hurt themselves whilst playing with they're Dad.

Your DP needs to listen to what your saying and he needs to not be so rough if he's hurting your DS.

The telling you your managing and slamming the door in your face would piss me right off and would lead to a big argument.

Sorry, that should be, " if anyone gets hurt, which is rare, 9/10 it's not a child." As in, the person taking it too far and losing track of their own strength is the person whose developmental stage makes that appropriate.

And yes, what Painted said. The only wrestling happens with DH on his back on a soft surface - mattress or carpet - with small child looming above. And usually it stops because small child is laughing too much to continue. I don't think I can remember a single time DS has been hurt by that - he's been hurt when he's flung himself on his father and missed because he's small and clumsy, but not because his dad has actually hurt him.

A grown man hurting a small child repeatedly in a "play fight" isn't what I recognise as normal. At all. A child getting carried away and hurting himself occasionally, sure. Not the adult inflicting it.

If DS is crying and is hurt then it has to stop.

I agree with PP that shutting you out is not on - I simply would not tolerate that - who does he think he is?

I agree with Epilepsyhelp, I think there must be more to this.

Me and both my kids do play fighting in a way their dad doesn't with them. It does sometimes end in upset and tears. It is quite hard to instil rules, no punching etc! (DD is 11 and Ds).

The four bits that worry me herein what you say are:

• it is that your son initiates it to get attention. he needs to be getting attention anyway from your dp, is dp his dad?

• When I try to tell them to be careful or stop fighting, dp tells me I'm being a manager and shuts the door of the room they're playing in in my face. NOT ON, he must respect you and he should not be shutting a door in your face ever!

• I'm so sick of it. I feel like my family is broken. it is not broken but I sense a lack of care for ds from your dp and a lack of respect from your dp for you.

- I feel like walking away sometimes. This is very ambiguous, what do you mean? Walking away from whom, your partner, your whole family or just the situation at hand?

Please clarify. nothing is necessarily broken, but you do need to attend to it.

i fucking hate horseplay. it always ends in tears.
my own parents never tolerated it and neither would i.

there's always one wanker who has to push it so that someone else ends up upset.
your DH should be the adult here and know fine well when to stop before there's tears.

Thank you. Lots of food for thought here. You've all calmed me down a bit but I still need to sort this out in my head. Will sleep on it!

(and Ds is 5).... sorry it doesn't always end in tears literally, it often used to end in me getting cross and saying that that was too much! Now we make sure it is all very gentle, lots of tickling and if it gets rough I stop.

I hate it. It sets me on edge and I HATE being 'the boring sensible one' even though it's fucking stupid because it will all end in tears/ spilled drink / overexcited child taking it too far and kicking the adult in the shins (hahaha FIL )

Strikes me as a lazy short cut way to get child to shriek with you. Sort of Disney dad.

BUT that's just me - I can see lots of happy horseplayers have already posted, it's nice to know it isn't always a crap thing.

Play fighting is still fighting.

Someone will always get hurt and with a vast disparity in size and weight, it will usually be your son.

Lol at Disney dad - feels like lazy parenting to me too

midlifehope - Sorry, I started my post before dinner and when I posted there were tons of new messages!

Re I really don't know. There seem to be 2 schools of thought here on this post. One its normal. Other it's not. I'm so confused

Well I think if it is fun and games if it is fun and games, if it ends in tears it's bad. I agree with *Minikievs(.

When I said ends in tears I meant sometimes it goes wrong, in our case, which is why I changed it.

But your dp is not allowing you any input and that does not seem right. If my dh was not happy with me play fighting with kids I would stop. I would certainly not shut the door in his face.