To be sick of this 'rough and tumble'

[midlifehope]

Need some advice on rough housing / rough and tumble. My dp and 4 year old engage in it most nights. Often, Ds initiates it but I think it's his ritualised way of getting affection, attention from his dad. It feels stressful and a bit out of control and invariably ends in my 4 year old son crying as he's bumped himself, or him running to me and saying 'daddy tried to hurt me', which sounds awful to me. When I try to tell them to be careful or stop fighting, dp tells me I'm being a manager and shuts the door of the room they're playing in in my face. I'm so sick of it. I feel like my family is broken. I feel like walking away sometimes.

[TheCarpenter]

This thread brought back lovely memories of tickle fights with my Dad and Siblings. Can't remember anyone crying as a result.

Sometimes small children will cry 'hurt' if they're not winning. But surely when it's an adult and a child the child should 'win'? If it was siblings lathering the shite out of each other that's one thing, but not Dad hurting Son every time.

Love rough play with my DC's. Great to burn off some energy and a good way to get a cuddle of a teen who is too cool for cuddles but not too big to want to rough house. I get a cheeky hug after we rough play and I can ruffle his hair without 'gerrofmuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum'.

[AgentZigzag]

You'd be OK with your 4 YO getting 'just a little bit sore that goes away in 2 minutes' most days because of something their Dad was deliberately doing to them NeedASacrf?

I can't believe you wouldn't try and put a stop to it.

[Wolfiefan]

I'm not happy if my child ends up getting hurt. Once in a blue moon in a complete accident may be unavoidable. What you are describing sounds really horrible. A grown man regularly making a small child cry as part of a "game". I'm sorry but this is bloody disturbing.

[Atenco]

I always nagged my older brother to play like this. And he'd try to get out of it, because I would always end up hurt and he was/is the gentlest person imaginable.

If your ds didn't like it, he would ask you to stop it before it happened, wouldn't he?

[CocktailQueen]

He problem with rough play is that it can easily end in tears. Your dh is being a twat. It should be fun for his DS - not for him, Ffs! He's an adult.

DS is 4. Your h needs to be a lot more careful. Some dc get overexcited by rough play and find it hard to wind down. If your DS is hurt every time then your h needs to rethink what he is doing!! Ffs. And shutting the door in your face? No way. Go and watch them- see what they do. Can your h interact with DS in any other way??

[AgentZigzag]

'If your ds didn't like it, he would ask you to stop it before it happened, wouldn't he?'

Are you saying that because a 4 YO hasn't stopped it that he must like it?

I really hope I've misunderstood what you've written, because if I haven't then you're also blaming all the 4 YOs who have been abused in various physical and sexual ways for not stopping it themselves.

[AnyFucker]

A 4yo would not "tell you to stop before it happened"

Adults have to know when to stop. Small children don't really have an "off" button until it ends in tears.

[BabyGanoush]

Rough play is supposed to be great for kids, as it is a bonding thing as well as learning to harness your strength and how to "fight" without hurting the other person.

But your DH is failing on those accounts. He needs to be more careful .

Occasional tears after high octane play fighting is not unusual, but kids should not really get hurt at all!

[AgentZigzag]

This is going to sound harsh, but if you think there's more to this than a bit of fun getting out of hand and despite trying different things the person doing it refuses to stop, then it's up to you OP to protect your little boy.

You're the one who's seeing it from the inside and know the context this is playing out in, and from the way you've written your posts you know it's not right.

Your DP doesn't have any right to tell you it's none of your business, your DSs well-being is definitely your fucking business.

If your DP won't listen then you have to either find a way to make him or take control so that he physically can't get to your son.

[Johnny5isAlive]

I also have very fond memories of rough and tumble with my dad on his bed. Highlight of my week.

Similarly my DSs love the same with their dad. He gets home from work and if it's been a bath night then it means a quick rough and tumble before bed. Almost always ends in tears. I leave them to it as I get too flinchy and tutty.
I wouldn't read too much into your DS complaining that daddy tried to hurt him during this. At that age I'd say they see that as the whole idea of the game.
If you really don't like it then you need to think of an alternative activity to distract DS

[G1veMeStrength]

By the way I see Steve Biddulph is recommended - IMO he is clueless and his book is a load of crap.

[Laquitar]

i don't like it.
I have it in my mind that rough play and 'jokes' (mocking someone) is what. bullies always use. And then they say 'i was only plaging/joking. where is your sense of humour'.
i am not saying that everybody who plays is a bully.
But it is the favourite game of bullies because it blures the lines and confuses you about boundaries and 'no'. i think.
If your child cries then it is not fun.

[theshitestuff]

I listened to an interesting podcast about play and there's was some interesting stuff on rough and tumble play - great for kids. They learn boundaries, they learn what hurts them and others, good for bonding. All sorts

Also some stuff on there about something a load of psychopathic murderers in the US had in common - they weren't ever really allowed to play or muck about as kids. Play wasn't tolerated. Everything had to be structured

I'll see if I can find it

[theshitestuff]

Here you go

Podcast on play including rough and tumble https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/ted-radio-hour/id523121474?mt=2&i=338546080

[theshitestuff]

I listed to it ages ago so apologies if I've remembered anything incorrectly

Hope you get your issues sorted op

[theshitestuff]

I'm listening to it now - 26 murderers. It was actually the lack of rough and tumble play they had in common.

Interesting huh

[AgentZigzag]

So unless the OP doesn't let her DP do whatever the fuck he likes her DS will turn into a murdering psychopath?

Mmm, that's helpful.

[OfaFrenchmind2]

I loved playing rough with my dad and my sister. Sometimes ended in tears, because we were overexcited, but it was a great way to learn to control your strength and yourself. I still think fondly of it and play-"boxe" with my dad when I see him. My mom would watch, laugh, participate sometimes and tell us to "walk it off" if we were getting the crocodile tears out.

But my parents trusted each other on doing what was best for us, and respected each other. That may be what you feel your are lacking with your DP.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I'm not a fan either. DH and Ds1 do martial arts together; but I've had to stop them kicking each other at home, because a) Ds2 joins in (and he's only 3 and doesn't understand it, so just kicks them) and b) Ds1 recently got into trouble at school for kicking someone (the other one did too, they're friends, just the rough-housing got too much and the teacher intervened).

I'm particularly wary of it because my Dad was one who tended to take it too far without realising too; but at least he was massively apologetic when he realised! I had a sprained neck from being helped to bounce on the bed aged 3 (going too high and too much flick-flack of my neck); and I have vivid memories of the time he was tickling me while I was on my back, knees up against my chest, and he was leaning on them. I couldn't actually breathe - I was on the bed, but couldn't breathe enough to laugh, cry or say Stop!. My mum was there, she only realised there was a problem when she saw tears coming down my face and told him to stop immediately. Mortified, he was. Never did it again.

And that is where your H is going wrong - if you accidentally hurt your small child while engaging in rough play, you take more care next time to try and avoid it, not deliberately continue in what is probably some misguided attempt to "toughen him up".

Ds1 and Ds2 are always fighting too - but at least it's generally the 3yo beating up the 7yo, not the other way around, so I try to let them get on with it without getting too stressed - but can't always cope as one or other of them usually ends up crying

[Senpai]

My dad was rough and tumble growing up. I liked it, DB didn't. DF was gentler on DB and rougher with me. We were always having fun except my father when he was greeted in the morning by us with wrestler body slams if he didn't get out of bed in time. If we weren't having fun he stopped, DB would walk away and I'd carry on until my dad had to put a stop to it because I was getting to rough.

Alternatively, I had a very rough and tumble cousin who didn't know his own strength. We'd play fight and rough house to the point of breaking shit and coming away with bruises. We couldn't figure out why our parents insisted on breaking up our fun. Cousin turned out to be physically very tough but he is very tender hearted and sensitive. Play fighting does not toughen kids up, and there is a difference between having a high pain tolerance and being tough.

It's all on the threshold of your child.

If your son is coming away crying every time, then your DP needs to tone it down a notch and remember he is the adult. I rough house with 20 month old DD, and she finds it funny to get whacked with a pillow hard enough to knock her on her butt (on the bed/couch of course) or to get pushed down or flung in the air by her ankles. I make sure it never ends in tears with a stray accident once or twice, when she says "no" it stops abruptly and we do something quiet and low key for a bit until she starts it back up again.

You can't let him continue hurting your 4yo DS. Once is an accident, twice I'll give to misjudgment, but every night is just bullying or being plain irresponsible by not keeping an eye on the situation.

[janaus]

Maybe DH doesnt see the warning signs of DS getting tired and over it.
A little talk with DH suggesting he eases off before DS ends up getting hurt. Rough play fighting is fun so long as it doesn't go too far. Hope DH and DS still have their fun.

[RamblingRedRose]

My STBXH was like this too

Every fucking time it ended up in tears until I totally lost it on him and told him it was too much, always too much. He toned it down after that but I also find your situation very sinister and agree that you need to protect your DS.

[TheDowagerCuntess]

My DB and I didn't have rough play with our DF as he was such a gentle soul and engaged with us in lots of other ways - it's not something I grew up with.

DH and the kids regularly have a 'tickle fest' in the evenings - it's clearly physical, but it's also fun and gentle, and it has never, not once, ended in upset, let alone tears. It's also never once occurred to me to be bothered by it - because why would I? It's fun for all, and DH ends it after a relatively short while.

In other words, it sounds completely different from what's going on in the OP. I would be so angry if DH behaved in such an unkind way - unkind to a small 4YO, and unkind to me.

You are right to be upset by this. If this carries on unabated, it's potentially deal-breaker stuff.

[mathanxiety]

Your DP is bullying both of you.

I don't like the thought of having narrow parameters of what it means to be a boy. If DP is shutting doors in your face when you try to intervene, then he seems to have narrow parameters of what it means to be a man too, and a father and partner, and clearly he feels there are limits to what you can say, and how much you can hope to influence matters, as a woman.

None of this sounds good.

Is there any other way in which DS gets attention from his dad? If this is all there is, then your DP is a lousy father, and if he shuts doors in your face then he is showing a terrible example to your DS as well as being a rotten partner to you.

Is there any way the two of them could be steered into something else they could both enjoy that wouldn't end in tears?

Does your DP have theories about 'manning up' his son?