To wonder if a child needs male role models

[sunnydayinoctober]

Hello. My fiancé and I are currently in the embryonic stages of our fertility journey for IVF/ICSI which we hope to start in early 2016 - exciting

One of the things we were both asked about was how we intended to ensure any child had positive male role models if he was a boy. My fiancé replied she felt that being a positive human role model was more important than seeking out men - that the qualities she would hope a child of ours would grow up with are not exclusive to one sex or the other.

I thought her answer was a good one, so agreed (I didn't really know what to say myself!) but I wondered what anyone on here thought!

Thanks

Unfortunately as things stand, we don't know many men. I am a deputy head teacher of a primary school and my fiancé is a midwife! These are both very 'female' professions...

If only primary schools and childcare had great female AND male role models. All children would get a balanced view of things.

(Massive vested interest)

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fhyrf

This is a difficult one. Tbh, I would say try to have a girl. (There is the problem with IVF tilting the sex ratio towards male, because more babies are male for some reason, if nothing is done to counter it)

I do think a boy needs both an absence of bad male role models, and a presence of good ones. With the former being more important than the latter.
As he will, without doubt, have male teachers, etc. you have to have good role models for him before he encounters bad ones.

You should also take TV into consideration - I would not let a young boy watch The Simpsons, with the completely useless male family members, just for example. I am sure there are lots of other shows with bad male role models, and media consumption, too, is part of how a boy perceives the world.

I thinkk The Simpsons is a great role model in some ways! Homer loves Bart - isn;t afraid to show it, apologises when he's screwed up and spends time with his chidlren...

Don't read raising boys. It's full of dodgy pseudoscience. Half of which has irritatingly filtered out into general knowledge as being "fact" even though most of it is totally made up or a spurious conclusion based on observation and correlation.

WTF at the 7 year olds being taught "how to talk to girls". That doesn't need to be taught by a man, because it consists of "Girls are people just like boys. Talk to them exactly as you'd talk to a boy you don't know very well." In fact, surely that's even better coming from a woman they already know and like because you can say, hey, I was a girl once you know, and I like minecraft/football/star wars (or whatever). I've found that repeating the idea that not all girls/boys like the same things (and what a silly idea that they might) is far more effective in helping kids develop critical thinking when it comes to gender stereotypes.

Children only get the idea that the opposite sex is mysterious and frightening if you actively teach them that. Obviously it's nerve wracking to speak to somebody that you have a crush on which is a totally different thing and happens after puberty.

I disagree with your partner actually.

I think ALL children need good role models from both sexes. That doesn't have to be from the traditional family model, but it's still essential.

Not having role models for people of the opposite sex is extremely "othering".

But it isn't set in stone.

You don't need to nominate all their role models before they are born.

You cannot say you will be with one partner forever.

Life is fluid. It is about teaches kids and yourself to be open minded and to be resilient.

People come and go. You are their constant. The relationships you choose are their templates. The way you interact with others is their benchmark.

If I had had to decide everything about my kids upbringing before tgey were birn I would have needed skills I didn't have then and don't have now.

Everyday is a school day.

Girls need a positive role model as much if not more. And boys (and girls) need positive female role models. But as your fiancé says, positive human role models most of all.

Grandad, uncle, school teacher or friends can be role models just as well as parents.

Best of luck with ivf!

I've found that repeating the idea that not all girls/boys like the same things (and what a silly idea that they might) is far more effective in helping kids develop critical thinking when it comes to gender stereotypes.

Yy and yes.

And also yes to being wary of being "othering". We live in an all female household. But I try to teach my dds that people are people of all sorts. The only thing women (almost) all do differently from men is we cannot pee standing up without getting our feet wet.

And I totally disagree that most people only have friends of same gender. We have friends we like not necessarily friends who are like us.

brandnew same here. No males around at all. My dad is dead, no brothers either. It's a worry.

You know, the more I think about this the more it's annoying me, actually.

Plenty of families have kids where the mother/father is not a good female or male role model.

For example, if a straight couple walk into an IVF clinic, and the staff think that the husband is an abusive dick, I'm guessing that they aren't allowed to ask the question "And who is going to be a positive male role model to your child, because this one isn't." ?

Can they actually block IVF entitlement if they don't think you intend to provide male role models?

I think that all children need a good male role model. Men and women are quite different. As a single parent my DS was top heavy with women role models and male ones were more difficult. It was male company that he craved. He would tag on to friend's fathers- I found it very sad.
When I was a toddler I was my grandfather's little shadow- we both got a lot from that relationship.

Plenty of families have kids where the mother/father is not a good female or male role model.

I don't think they were asked who is going to be their father. A male role model does not have to be a parent, a father figure or a relative. The only requirement is that they be male.

And I presume the question was asked to provoke discussion/thought rather than as dealbreaker.

But I also imagine that the world being what it is that people ask questions of women they don't ask of men, they make assumptions about single mothers and not of single fathers or mothers in couples and they ask same sex couples questions they don't ask hetero couples. So it a good thing to question these assumptions/poor questions.

But equally I think it is a good thing to ask yourself if you live in a very socially limited environment be that all one sex, all one ethnicity, one social strata or one political or religious view, a) why that is? And b) should you do something about it?

I'm male and I was brought up by a single mum the only good male role model I had was my grandfather that I didn't see a huge amount of.
He's one of the most important people I have ever had in my life and following his example has made me a better person, no idea if it's because he was a male role model.

Okay, good points SmallLegs :)

OP I have a friend with the same set up as your envisaging. Her response to the question you were asked was the same as your partners. All fine til her son reached adolescence but now the lack of a close male role model is proving a problem.

Does she regret having him - of course not. I expect it will all work out fine in the end - but they're having to make some big changes now to help him. I am pretty sure she'd think you naive now too.

I thinkk The Simpsons is a great role model in some ways! Homer loves Bart - isn;t afraid to show it, apologises when he's screwed up and spends time with his chidlre

Homer also tries to strangle Bart sometimes. It is cartoon, but it is not for children.
Homer is the "bumbling dad" stereotype that reinforces the notion that men are not capable of caring for children.

@BertieBotts: For example, if a straight couple walk into an IVF clinic, and the staff think that the husband is an abusive dick, I'm guessing that they aren't allowed to ask the question "And who is going to be a positive male role model to your child, because this one isn't." ?

That's great fodder for comedy shows. I would like to see a short film with that.

It is utterly ridiculous, the limitations placed on women who want to have children, while women who do not want to have children are denied abortions.

Quite!