To wonder if a child needs male role models

[sunnydayinoctober]

Hello. My fiancé and I are currently in the embryonic stages of our fertility journey for IVF/ICSI which we hope to start in early 2016 - exciting

One of the things we were both asked about was how we intended to ensure any child had positive male role models if he was a boy. My fiancé replied she felt that being a positive human role model was more important than seeking out men - that the qualities she would hope a child of ours would grow up with are not exclusive to one sex or the other.

I thought her answer was a good one, so agreed (I didn't really know what to say myself!) but I wondered what anyone on here thought!

Thanks

I will clarify that statement once more, and then I will conclude people aren't reading

Some men and women who don't live with their child's biological parent will have a succession of relationships over that child's life.
Most children's primary residence is with their mother, so some of those children will experience a number of different male role models in their childhood, and this is generally considered not to be s good thing.
I believe that set up, when it happens is more damaging than ours - yet as the responses have shown, it cannot be criticised, but our setup can.

You might not be saying that all single mothers move men in and out for the sake of a good role model but you still stick to your view that "some" do.

It really isn't a very intelligent or nice thing to say and has no more sense to it than:
"Some same sex couples are unable to raise well-balanced children" or
"some couples stay together just for the sake of keeping a family unit"
"Some men move women in and out of their lives just to provide their kids with a mother figure"

As a woman you are very judgemental of other women it seems. That's a shame.

Charleston - yup, absolutely. In an age appropriate way. He teases his 3 year brother about having a girlfriend, his 3 year old brother does it back. Just as many of his friends do. In my experience, it's a normal part of growing up - it's not like I'm telling him the best chat up lines or how to make the first move...

What makes you think you won't end up being a single parent?

Do you think people pop out babies expecting to then end up a lone parent? You and your partner might not make it through the drudgery of sleepless nights and tantruming toddlers. Your partner may find someone else she prefers and leave you with the baby.

Oh wouldn't your words come back to bite you on your judgemental smug ass.

I have not criticised your set-up by the way. I have criticised your judgement of other women.

Obviously both males and females lead/do outdoorsy activities. However all the people I know who lead forest school/cubs are fantastic role models regardless of sex

I think I have clarified that statement and that you wish to be offended by me.

As a woman, I think it's sad when parents cause harm to their children, either accidentally or intentionally.

Some men do move women in and out of their lives to provide their children with a mother figure, you're absolutely right, but you can surely see that given the massive discrepancy between single mothers and single fathers that this statement is far more unusual.

I do stick to my view that some do. Many don't: many have a successful remarriage or a stable relationship, some date but on a casual basis and others stay single. It isn't judgemental to say some women don't provide a stable background for a child any more than it is judgemental to say some men are appalling fathers.

But I do think calling someone naive is less than pleasant.

Naive?

Really?

You ask for responses to an opinion and are out out that someone thinks it's naive?

Dude, this is a parenting forum, mostly full of mothers. Most of your opinions on childrearing are going to seem naive to us.

There are threads and threads on here of us all laughing at the things we thought and said about being parents before we had any children.

Before I had kids I probably would have thought your fiancée was making a good point. But now I know how little influence I have over my children's perception of their own gender.

You are naive now about this. You couldn't be otherwise.

You can come and ask for our opinions, and we'll give them, and they might be useful to you. But you'll still be naive about it all until you do it for real yourself.

Brand took time out of her day to respond to your question with a very thoughtful and personal post.

You were rude to her. What she said to you was really useful. That was not cool at all. And kind of made the point about your naivety.

What's wrong with your set up?

And yes - unless your partner and you absolutely stay together forever and both live too will be a single parent. Obviously we all wish you well but you don't know what is round the corner

I don't think anything is wrong with our setup - we don't know many men, which is a pity but we do have lots we could hopefully offer a child.

Goalie You are one of the people creating a society where children are pressured to grow up too fast. That sort of comment is entirely unnecessary, and in my opinion not funny and completely inappropriate.

BathtimeFunkster makes a very good point. I had no idea - only opinions - until I had my first baby 18 years ago and I realised that I was starting from scratch and had everything to learn.

To add to the answers to the question I think that positive role models of both sexes are important. My boy needs more than he sees. No problem when he was little but a real problem now. Society with its modern views that adults other than parents should steer well clear of kids that are not theirs makes this very difficult to achieve. ( I understand the reasons for this but there is a consequence)

Agree Blu. Not nice.

You could end up a single parent op! Don't judge.

No one ever gives men shit for introducing OW their new girlfriends to their kids after 2 weeks usually. Most single mothers wait a long time before introducing new partners.

Oh dear, a bit of lighthearted teasing from Goalie means she's making her child grow up too fast, and I'm going to end up a single parent moving lots of men in and out of my child's life despite being lesbian

parents/parent providing a stable household is important, regardless of sex/partners. A single parent (either sex) with endless rubbish partners who are involved in the child's life, will have a negative influence.

Sorry - typo in previous post. "live until the kids reach adulthood - you too will be a single parent" - should have said.
Apologies

Unfortunately, some people do believe that lesbian couples or single women shouldn't have a child, and when pressed as to why, insist that it's because the welfare of the child is at risk.

Yes, sadly some people do think that.

Not many on MN, which is a forum dominated by (famously bolshy ) mothers, many of them bringing up children without fathers.

It's disappointing to see the view that single mothers don't make adequate parents made on this thread by you. It's not really great to say "oh no, it's fine for women to have babies on their own as long as they're coupled up. We're not like those other women having babies without a man."

sosomeof those children will experience a number of different male role models in their childhood, and this is generally considered not to be s good thing.

Considered, by whom? Is this proven in any studies? I would think it likely depends on the qualities of those rs. Having multiple successive monogamous respectful rs over a period of a number of years is not a bad thing unless we are going back to judging women by v old fashioned standards.

And a mother's romantic partners are not necessarily role models for her kids.

My ex is not a positive role model. Our rs is not one I would not like the kids to model. So I threw him out - an outcome I would like them to model if the same ever happened to them (there's stability and then there's misery).

Their positive male role model is a friend of mine who has known them since they were babies who is kind, fun, intelligent and who respects other people. He isn't there all the time but they see him regularly.

It does not have to be someone you are related to or involved with.

If you don't have many male friends you should possibly find some. You are missing out. There are a lot of good people out there who can make interesting company, amazing friends and some of them are male.

Yes because gay single mums never introduce new partners...

How are you a deputy head. It's actually unbelievable this thread and I've been sucked in. I didn't write anything for you to be offended by in my first post but you are obviously looking for a bun fight

I do think children need positive male role models, and positive female role models, whether they are a boy or a girl, and this includes children who grow up with a father/mother who isn't one. My DH's father wasn't in his life much, it's clear from listening to him talk about his childhood that he idolised one of his uncles, and got a lot of guidance from the father of one of his best friends. It's all about balancing the influence of any negative role models. If children have a limited experience of adult males, and none positive, it's easy for them to assume that that's how men behave. My single friend has a DS and is very keen for him to spend lots of time with my dh, as she doesn't want him to grow up seeing how his father behaves and thinking that is how all men behave.

If you only have a very small experience of something, you can easily make generalisations. That's the issue as I see it. A friend of mine and his husband adopted two boys, but they have plenty of positive female role models around. If they only had regular female contact with his dodgy sister, that wouldn't be ideal!

Just think about all the narrow minded opinions in this world, all the sweeping generalisations after Paris of all refugees, or all Muslims. If you'd grown up with people in your life who were Muslims or refugees from another country, you wouldn't share these stupid opinions as you'd know from your own experience that not everyone is the same, and it's the qualities of a positive human role model that matter. The key issue is realising that they need positive human role models of all different types of people to realise that the qualities you are installing in them are qualities of humans and not just women who look like yourselves.

I think this is an issue for all parents, not just those in a same sex relationship.

I find it quite sad that dads are being reduced to just a "male role model". Having a dad is so much more than that. An uncle, a grandad, a sports coach or a male maths teacher are not on par with having a dad.

I would hate it if something were to happen to me and people thought, "Oh, it's ok, DS doesn't need a mom, his history teacher is female so he still has a positive female role model."

This issue isn't about children not having a certain male or female role model in their life, it's about a child growing up without one of its gender based parents.

But that isn't what I said, Bathtime. Unfortunately, you have chosen to interpret a criticism of a particular style as parenting as a criticism of all single mothers. It most certainly is not, but given I've clarified that statement three times now, I have concluded you are interpreting it in the way you want to.

As for 'nobody gives father shit for introducing their kids to women' - I do, and had the thread been about men and female role models perhaps this would have been relevant.

Thank you for your thoughts everyone - some very interesting points and it's a shame it all got a bit aggressive.

No-one said you were going to end up a single parent - as you well know
PP said that no-one knows whether they are going to end up as a single parent.
No-one said you would move men in and out of your life - you have made the whole point of your post the fact that you are lesbian. We get it.

PP answered because the question of role models, male and female, is an interesting one - especially for boys. It is a concern to some people. I think it is worth discussing. I am grateful to hear how others have handled it; what their experiences are.

Hi OP, we are two mums with a DD(2) and a DS(4). We had a few negative comments when I was pregnant with DS.
My mother is still obsessed with the make role model idea, as is my FIL. They are both amateur psychologists. My FIL observed DS kicking a ball around aged 2 and said 'you can see that boy hasn't got a father, he doesn't know how to play as a team'. For the record, despite two mothers who couldn't care less about football, DS is the top of his football group. I feel sorry for the other boys who clearly hate football, but their dads are forcing them into it.
What is a positive make role model? A bloke who happens to be nice? What is a positive female role model? Is Mr Tumble a positive male role model? Superman? Huw Edwards? (Oh yes, I love Huw Edwards)
Have to confess, I don't really get what the fuss is about. DS and DD are aware of gender. Both are happy, balanced kids (so far). My partner and I bring the qualities and foibles of our respective personalities and personal interests. Our gender does not really play a huge part.