To wonder if a child needs male role models

[sunnydayinoctober]

Hello. My fiancé and I are currently in the embryonic stages of our fertility journey for IVF/ICSI which we hope to start in early 2016 - exciting

One of the things we were both asked about was how we intended to ensure any child had positive male role models if he was a boy. My fiancé replied she felt that being a positive human role model was more important than seeking out men - that the qualities she would hope a child of ours would grow up with are not exclusive to one sex or the other.

I thought her answer was a good one, so agreed (I didn't really know what to say myself!) but I wondered what anyone on here thought!

Thanks

Then what do you suggest we do Bathtime - try to find men to come around and join us for story time?

Request that our child goes into the class where a man is teaching, even though we know the female teacher is actually far more skilled at her job?

Obviously, our child will have opportunities in their life where they will, hopefully meet men, but I sense some of these may be overstated in their significance to our child. My mother sadly passed away when I was eight, but I don't remember female teachers or those who led clubs or organisations as being the people I modelled myself on.

If I had to answer the question 'what are your positive qualities' I would hope most people would agree I am kind, funny, sensible, decisive and strong. Shock horror - the qualities my dad taught me: a man I'm definitely a woman!

bigpants my ds has had positive male role models including beaver leaders (before cubs), rugby coaches, an excellent taekwondko instructor, two male teachers so far, my brother when he's back from uni, a male cousin who we're close to and he's still desperate for male attention.

The comment about single mothers moving different men in regularly wasn't particularly nice op. The major of sp bring their dc without moving different men in every 6 months Im sure I could find some stereotypes about you but I wouldn't be a horrible cow and type them out.

Point taken Sunny but I was trying to make the point that not having a close positive male role model has affected how I deal with men.

BrandNew - I didn't think your comment was particularly nice either, but please note I wasn't talking about 'single mothers' - I was talking about what some single mothers do. And they do.

One of the most well rounded people I know is a man raised by 2 women. He's 22 now and just lovely.

I think.there will Lilley ne make role models your baby will come across. Instructors, drs, nurses, teachers,

schools are now running events where they encourage dad's and uncles etc to come in.

I'm sure between what yor and your DF model witg regards to how to treat eachother and be as people and the people your child meets on the way, you will all be ok.

huge congratulations on your engagement and ivf

I think your fiancée gave a great response! Of course it's important for boys and girls to have good role models of both genders! I have noticed that now ds is 5 he is beginning to identify with his gender and increasingly looks up to his dad (who is obviously the closest male role model he has). He watches him shave, asks questions, asks dh more than me to build things with him etc. But it's also important for him to see the example I set him - women are not there just to pick up after him, women are strong, they have wants and needs outside of being a 'mum' or a 'wife'. But I expect those attitudes to exude from my dh too - ds always sees us treat each other with respect, always sees us pitch in and support each other, sees both of us do housework etc. Raising a child is about instilling the values in them that are most important to you as parents and that comes from both of you. If you're a lone parent then a child can get those things from another close relative.

you asked and people are giving opinions, op, but you seem defensive that you already know your possible future ds won't need male role models.

excuse typos

left handed typing while drinking a coffee

Oh ok it's another poster posting not for different views but for a pat on the back and a chorus of agreement on whatever you want...

Thank you to everyone who responded to my ds issue of wanting male attention.

Then what do you suggest we do Bathtime

I don't suggest you do anything.

You asked for a response to what your fiancée said and I think it was eyerollingly silly.

"Positive human role models"?

In this highly gendered world the kid will be growing up in?

Um... OK.

But thanks for making up stupid suggestions on my behalf and trying to pretend they are something I would advocate.

Nearly as classy as your dig at single mothers and all the men they move in and out of their children's lives.

You can recognise you have a potential issue with a lack of men in any future child's life without pretending it doesn't matter.

It might.

Taking the position of a lack of negative male influences also makes sense.

But it is something to think about. Not wave away with guff about "humans" like some "gender blind" numpty.

From my experience with DS I would say it is something you need to consider. DS is 8, and over the last year has really started looking to his Dad to see how men are meant to behave. He commented the other day, "I know you can be tough and like cuddles cos Dad does" and there have been many other similar comments.

Your DC sound like they will have a lot of advantages, being much wanted and born into a family where people treat each other well. This is just one thing that needs to be considered when they get a bit older.

There's no need to ask for the male teacher or to start down the football route. You could just put your child down on the waiting list for beavers/cubs/scouts. Or the St. John's ambulance children's club. Or some weekly forest skills club.

So you disagree with having a positive male role model.

Personally I think if they have negative roles models, it's very important to have positive.

Some kids grow up perfectly fine without a male parent. But not having a male parent doesn't mean no positive role model.

I grew up without my dad until I was eleven. However, my aunts husbands were my male role models. They were great. Also the dojo I attended was run by men.

My dad has been in my life twenty years. My kids have lots of positive male and female role models.

I do outdoorsy stuff with the kids. I do contact sports etc. Dh does all the cooking, baking, painting with them etc.

So we don't have traditional roles really.

It's important for kids to grow up knowing how to interact with men and women.

Buts that's not to say all kids that don't will have problems. Or that all kids growing up with positive role models will be fine.

Positive male role models are everywhere. After school clubs, teachers, relatives, even neighbours.

My DW and I have two DS (3 and 6). Before we decided to have kids, we had exactly the same conversation as you... over time, we've observed how our DS behave / have been brought up compared to other boys with a 'mum and dad'.

What we found : really no difference at all.

DS1 goes to football and Beavers, DS2 will likely follow (or might choose rugby)..
DW often takes them out in the local woods to climb trees, I provide the sticks as the pretend weapons.
We build dens in the garden.
We chase each other with nerf guns.
We cook together.
We joke with DS1 about 'girls' he likes at school - after all, as lesbians, we know what it takes to 'make an impression on a girl'.
We still have the tantrums and fighting.
Our DS treat their friends in the same way their friends treat them.

DS1 has occasionally pointed out he doesn't have a 'Dad', not in a negative way, but as an observation of his peers. So, there probably is something there to him, about it not being the norm to have two mums, but I don't feel it's affecting him (at the moment), from growing into a rounded boy. Might it matter as they get older ? I suppose we'll find out - but at least we know we have to watch for warning signals of them possibly needing more of a male role figure.

For what it's worth, I think you're doing the right thing in questioning how, as a couple, you would deal with boys. We did the same and came to the conclusion we'd have no idea how to raise girls, so it was lucky we had boys!

Good luck with the IVF!

No, not at all. But I do think calling someone naive is less than pleasant. Of course opinions are welcomed, and I absolutely respect that but sometimes those opinions will be very different to mine and I think that's also fine and to be expected.

Why do people assume women won't be interested in outdoorsy things?

Because they're idiots

I tend to agree with your Dfi; I have a son (and DDs), was a single parent from DS's toddlerhood until he was well into secondary school, and have a lack of male family members generally. My two or three close make friends weren't local. So DS didn't have anything you could call a 'male role model' in his day-to-day life and I can't see that that has had any negative effect at all.

I also think the smug comment about single sex couples having "positive outcomes" compared with single parents child-raising is neither kind nor accurate. Single parent families so vastly outnumber same sex families and are frequently single parent families because of break-ups, death, trauma etc that you cannot compare the two.

How do you define a positive outcome anyway??? Which children are defined as "positive outcomes" and which are not? If they don't go to prison? If they get A grades?? If they grow up to be bankers or nurses?? I wonder whose children on here would fall into the positive outcome category.

Kids are not projects - they are people. (Would your parents class you as being a positive outcome I wonder?)

Can you see now how horrible that sounds?

I do think it's important to have good male role models around, but for many people the only choice in that respect is via schools. That's why it's important to have more male teachers in primary schools.

One of the happiest and most secure family units I know is that of two female gay friends. One of their children was the result of insemination with the sperm of another gay friend, and he has been happy to be in the background essentially as a father figure for all three of their children. It's worked brilliantly.

Goalie
We joke with DS1 about 'girls' he likes at school

A six year old?

Kids need good role models.

The role models' sex is irrelevant.

I think as with most things we tend to go off our own experiences I know my dad was secretly a bit disappointed that my brother wasn't interested in sport yet he didn't try to involve me in going to football matches which is a shame as I'd have enjoyed it. My brother always identified very strongly with my mum - they were very alike.

Please let me clarify that I was not saying 'all single mothers do this' but that 'sometimes, numerous male role models can be more problematic than none.'

Unfortunately as things stand, we don't know many men. I am a deputy head teacher of a primary school and my fiancé is a midwife! These are both very 'female' professions - maybe, if our child is a boy he will break the mold! Neither of us have a father to be Grandad and there aren't suitable uncles. So while its certainly not something we have dismissed, it's also something we are aware we don't currently have to offer a child - but we have numerous things we can.

I'm a single mum and my dd has positive role models in her Grandfather and my brothers however I still find she craves male attention. She is 9yo now but has always seeked out male attention and gets very upset at times over not having a dad.

Op you sound defensive and naive which is similar to how I was when pregnant with dd! Am sure you will make great parents and your child will be well looked after and loved however ime children will want male and female role models in their life.

Also lay off the stereotypes about single mums moving men in and out of their childs life

BlueJug, no, it isn't horrible.

Unfortunately, some people do believe that lesbian couples or single women shouldn't have a child, and when pressed as to why, insist that it's because the welfare of the child is at risk.

Research has shown this is not the case.

I'm sorry if my comment hurt your feelings or caused you any upset as this was not my intention, but at the moment that is what the research indicates

I agree with the person who said the most important thing is not having a male (or in other cases female) negative role model. In an ideal world there would be plenty of good male and female role models of various ages for the dc, but you can't just magic them up. But you can ensure they are not exposed to a negative influence.