PIL changed Xmas arrangements

[stillnotjustamummy]

Complicated one. I have 3 DC, the youngest is 9weeks and eldest is just 4 yrs old.
We invited PIL here. They accepted. I did grocery order. But now apparently its their oldest sons year to see them and he wants to be up north in their old family home as that suits his family better, the PIL claimed that they hadn't accepted our invite, but had left it open. As BIL wants to see them in his childhood home PIL have decided to host BIL there. My DH wants to join them.

I've tried to explain that sleeping 5 to a room plus attempting to bring the kids gifts (dolls house) will be impossible. We have just tried sleeping in a single room on a weekend away and it was awful - no
one slept! It's a 4 or 5 hour drive to PIL house so going in the morning is not an option.

Extra complication - My SIL is expecting a baby and is late in the second trimester. She has had multiple miscarriages and I think she finds it hard to be around me and my girls, which is understandable. I don't want to upset her by butting in on 'her' Christmas. It would strain the accommodation as there really isn't enough space for everyone at PIL house and there are no suitable hotels / holiday let nearby (grim northern village)

I know that next year we will be hosting my nephews from my sister as it is her year to have her sons on on Xmas day. (Messy divorce complicated set up)
Which would mean not doing Christmas with his parents until 2017, which I am fine with but DH would be upset about. He is very sentimental about his childhood family home, he will not support my view that his parents have made other plans and we should carry on with ours at home. Who is being unreasonable?

I think there are lots of issues here. What do you want to happen in the medium-term? Sounds to me like the schedule you are on with his family works for your sister and hosting your nieces and nephews. The supermarket delivery is the least of your worries, presumably you can just cancel it.

Is there a wider sleeping arrangement that would work if you want - e.g. all the kids in a room together, and you and your DH in with the baby, and maybe the parents move out (of what is presumably the largest room in the house? - if necessary, they go stay with or at a neighbours house who are away for Christmas - I know lots of families who do this, because its parents with kids who have to stay close to the kids). Are you sure about what SIL wants - I think having had lots of miscarriages can make it hard to be around other people's kids, especially when pregnant.

As to the drive, could one of you drive up, and the other one go up by train with the baby? And be picked up the other end? Then you just have the drive one-way. If the sleeping arrangements can't be worked out, you could leave on boxing day and stop over part-way back home.

Lots of options if you wanted to make it work - and clearly you can just say no if you don't.

I have no issues travelling with a young baby but have discovered the realities which are nappy/feed stop every 2 hours if driving, queues for facilities for nappy changing (hogged one last trip as DD decided to do monster poo just as I was putting her in the sling to leave and then needed a full change of clothes as a result). Multiply that by a few babies in the Christmas rush season and the stops get fraught, traffic queues are even less fun with screaming child who needs movement to sleep and it's cold so quick nappy changes are a nightmare.

So long journey yes, long journey at Christmas no way!

Another vote for you to stay put,OP. YADNBU!

Tell your DH your plans and then let him decide where he wants to be, communicate it all to his family and deal with their nonsense. You have enough to think about with your little ones.

As for other years, just take each one as it comes - you don't need to think about that now.

Just enjoy your children and your new arrival - this is a magical time for you all, even without Christmas.

Yup no way would I be going. The logistics'of the baby and he journey, the 5 to a room thing, the fact that SIL will probably hate having your kids around. All in all it sounds shit.

Shame that DPs parents seem to have two exceedingly selfish children. Nature or nurture...?

Anyway, I'd put my foot down, I wouldn't be traveling with the children this year. I would ask DP to think about where his priorities are.

Surely you can all go up when BIL and SIL aren't there and have a nice weekend with his parents when there isn't the space and gift logistic issues and the SIL thing?

Lilliangish the only reason I am firm on next year for my nephews is that my sister will have her court given contact time with her sons then. It is inflexible and means next year I know already I will have 6 kids in the house. The PIL are welcome to stay in a hotel then if they want, but I think they will use the argument of its the other brothers turn to see them...
About to do the chat over dinner. Fun.

My goodness, am I completely out of touch? How early do you need to do a grocery order for Christmas these days?

Apparently he is too tired to fight about it tonight - his words.
I'm planning to suggest that we go up for a weekend either before or after if he really needs to see the house, but that I'm refusing to inflict ourselves on his brothers plans and deal with logistical nightmares. I think he is a bit hurt that his folks have picked his brother over him and that his brother didn't ask him about it.

Scholes, a Xmas eve ocado slot? They were released months back. But it's not really the groceries that bothered me, like a PP said, I can change it easily enough, it's more the inconsiderate attitude of basically changing their minds because there was a 'better' offer.
The whole nightmare could be avoided if all the brothers did a 3 year rotation to see/host or whatever with their folks. Unless I can convince my DH that being at our house all the time is best (which I would like ) this scenario will play out again every chuffing year as inevitably there will always be two brothers wanting different things. It's so boring and unnecessary.

Why does your DH still feel the need to "fight" about it?

Is he seriously still thinking he can change your mind and heavily inconvenience you and the children (ok, only the baby really) just so he can go back up to his parents' house? I do hope that you can get it through to him how selfish he is being, even if he is disappointed in what his parents have done.

Good luck

Just tell him since he loved his family events so much, surely he will want to give the same special feeling to his own children. It's time to creat your own family traditions.
He is no longer a little child, but your children are and deserve to have time AT HOME to enjoy Christmas.

Also this may be the last year BIL is so keen to make the journey. If he himself has a tiny baby next year his wife may well be pressing him to stay at home! Let them have their last child-free Christmas altogether, see your sister next year and then see how it pans out. Now you can plan to have a fab Christmas at your house doing whatever you want without putting anyone's nose out of joint safe in the knowledge that no one is being left out. And remind him gently that much as he may want to turn back the clock to Christmases past nothing will ever be the same again now you have three children of your own - you've lost your dad, his parents won't be around forever (not trying to be morbid just facing up to all those things in our family - both PIL now dead and lost my dad this year - priorities change). Don't let this cast a cloud over Christmas - he should think of it as his chance to start creating magical Christmases for his own brood (and as you say you can go up before or after Christmas and have celebration there too - which is what we always did as kids and it felt like two Christmases!)

Wrt "fighting" about it, I think you have to acknowledge his hurt feelings - catch more flies with honey, and after all it IS a shitty thing that his brother's wants have trumped your invite to the PILs. Unfortunately, you know there's that thing where even if you agree with someone really, if they're criticising people you love (i.e. you being cross about his parents) then you go on the defensive. So you need to acknowledge his feelings but also stand very firm on the Christmas plan. People with a newborn (and multiple other DCs) should not be the ones to rearrange their plans to accommodate others. End of. Fine if you both wanted to, but you don't.

BIL has said that he really is happy for us to come up north and is willing to squash his existing children and themselves into one room if we need more space - basically condemning precariously pregnant SIL to a crappy nights sleep. Because of this DH is keener than ever to go and feels I'm being completely unreasonable. We just can't find any common ground. I really don't fancy the travel, being out of our own space and the histrionics of a big family do, even if it is 'just one day'. I do understand that his feelings are a bit hurt and that he has an equal say in a family decision but we are just in deadlock. I also feel if I give in now, we will be forever the part of the family that just toes the line and will never have a Christmas we both want.

I think you are at a crossroads here, even in your marriage, and if you see this out by insisting you won't go then all will be revealed. And yes, it is scary, but your future really does depend on the decisions you make now.

xxx

I think you have to say, if he wants to go then go. You and the the children will be staying home. Then it's his choice. No ultimatums or further discussions. It is a big deal to you and you and the children are his closest family now. Let him decide.

Yanbu, firstly from a safety perspective I think the advice is not to leave a baby longer than an hour in a car seat, the position whilst safest in an accident can inhibit breathing and tests showed babies oxygen saturation levels dropping dangerously low. This would mean several stops, making a five hour journey perhaps nearer seven?

Secondly, I agree with other pp, just plan the Christmas you want, presents in the morning etc, maybe tell pil they are very welcome, even if a few days later (if that's possible) but I wouldn't get into discussing subsequent years with them, seems unnecessary, especially if you decide to do Christmas your way.

I do understand that his feelings are a bit hurt and that he has an equal say in a family decision

Is he doing the same for you, or just riding roughshod over your opinion? Does he realise that a 4 hour journey with a newborn will be more like 6 or 7 by the time you've stopped multiple times for nappies and feeds? And that the others will just kick off every time you try and cram them back into the car when they want to run and play?

No no no no no! Not with a newborn. Way too far. Disregard all of the other arguments, they distract from the most important point.

A husband who wants his wife and smallest child to suck up discomfort to indulge his parents and wider family need. It sounds as though he is treating you the same as they are treating him - the bottom of the pile.

Stand up for yourself and your baby - he isn't going to.

Sorry, I'd understood BIL didn't have kids which was why multiple-miscarriage SIL didn't like being around you and your girls. I also feel if I give in now, we will be forever the part of the family that just toes the line and will never have a Christmas we both want I think that is the case whatever you do - he obviously thinks the only way to celebrate Christmas is with Mummy and Daddy.

Don't go anywhere. Stay at home with your dc's. Change your supermarket order to pre-prepared stuff and have a relaxing day. It's no fun for kids to be stuck in a car over Xmas.

"I also feel if I give in now, we will be forever the part of the family that just toes the line and will never have a Christmas we both want"

This. I have very difficult in laws who have done the same thing for Christmas eve, Christmas day and boxing day for over 30 years and are not prepared to compromise but expect everyone else to fit in with their plans and traditions. We made the mistake years ago of towing the line in an attempt to avoid drama and I really regret it. Now, we're trying to push back a bit and make them understand that we have to consider my family and what works for our DC but it's much, much harder because they've had years of getting their own way. Stand your ground this year or you will regret it, trust me.

Please don't let your husband spoil Christmas for your children . As others have said , they are the perfect age to have a magical time at home, not spending 5 hours in a car and then sleeping on the floor for two nights without most of their presents .

When I was a child , our Christmas was always spoilt by the adults around us. For my mother it was a chance to be the hostess of the year for the [adult] relatives .

In the days leading up to Christmas we were all kept busy doing the food preparations and making hand made decoration for the table . No playing , watching Christmas TV or going to parties etc .

We were not allowed to open our present on Christmas morning , we were sent off to work with our father and allowed back home around 2pm. Then when the guests arrived we were permitted to open our presents as a performance in front of them . Then we helped serve them Christmas dinner around 4pm.

Some guests were always late, then didn't eat much because they had already had lunch at their own house or elsewhere . My mother always had a big tantrum, dues to the stress of it all . It was hideous and I hated it .

As soon as I was old enough I went abroad at Christmas to avoid it all . Now we never see them on Christmas Day, we stay at home with our own kids so they can relax and play with their gifts . We don't care if the kids don't eat much of the Christmas dinner, they have usually had too many sweets by then. Who cares, it's one day a year .

We do family events on Boxing Day and other days around Christmas . But I've always been determined not to let the adults spoil it for the kids

Yanbu - I'd insist on staying put. Agree your SIL might prefer it that way this year. Disagree that you should ask her tbh... She will probably not want to admit if she doesn't want you there. Think you're v kind and sensitive to think of it.

I'm quite sure your BIL IS happy for you to come up north - because it fits in perfectly with him getting his own way again! Cheek.

How many children do they have? Will it be as unpleasant for them to squish into one room as it will be for you? Because frankly, there's no point in either of you (families) being in such an uncomfortable situation.

But I agree - the biggest point to consider is your baby. It's a long way, too far for her to do in one go; it could be snowing, making the journey perilous and potentially twice as long; it's just not practical. THIS is your sticking point.

Agree with Thumbwitches that obviously BIL will be only too happy for you to come and inconvenience his wife because he has already proven he's a selfish bugger.

Space is just one of several things that doesn't make this work. I genuinely don't know how you would pack all the toys and clothes you'd need for five people and the five people themselves into a car comfortably for a 4-5 hour journey. Five hours in a car with three under 4s is my personal idea of hell. You had offered a perfectly lovely plan hosting at your house. Your BIL is being selfish wanting to recreate Christmas at his family home and his parents are obviously keen to indulge him and want you to fall into line with what is easiest/preferable for everyone else. Well it's not preferable for YOU and your children! Sod it, don't let your DH pressure you into something that fits a load of selfish adults at the expense of you and your three little ones.

You've just had a baby for goodness sake, you are undoubtedly not even in a routine yet with baby, maybe still feeding on demand, I don't know your situation, but newborns are stressful and hard work and for that reason alone I'd want to be at home. I do think you should have more say in this than DH because you are the one still recovering from a birth and waking through the night with a newborn I assume.