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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU over not forcing a child to say please or thank you

115 replies

ScrumpyBetty · 22/11/2015 19:46

AIBU to think that teaching my child manners is not teaching him to blindly follow orders? I am interested in people's opinions after reading a Facebook post of an acquaintance, which basically said that she will never force her child to say please, thank you, give hugs etc if he doesn't want to because she wants her child to respect her and not to have to say please or thank you if he doesn't mean it. She equated teaching a child manners to blindly getting them to follow orders. Now I don't agree with this, but loads of people came on and supported her post, commenting that she was such an inspirational parent and that they fully agreed with her.
I am interested in what other people think.

OP posts:

DisappointedOne · 22/11/2015 21:55

DD is incredibly polite despite us never forcing please and thank you - it was modelled by those around her.

I've also never demanded that she say sorry - I always will and she usually will. I have a sister that thinks she can do and say as she likes because sorry makes it all okay. That's not the case. I want sorry to mean something. Again, DD will say it because she's seen it modelled.

Scuttlebutter · 22/11/2015 23:14

I completely agree that it's wrong to force DC to hug or kiss - that's horrible.

However, manners are hugely important in a number of settings (both social and professional) as an adult and I'm very grateful that our parents taught us the basics of please and thank you (including the dreaded TY note!), polite interaction with other adults, conversation at meals (rather than simply eating as a refuelling exercise), table manners and generally how to behave in a variety of settings e.g. the theatre, restaurants, places of worship etc. Having these basic social tools has been immensely useful as an adult.

I can remember being gently reminded of things as a child - wasn't a problem and I see it as part of preparing a child for adulthood.

Catsize · 22/11/2015 23:20

Can't bear it when children (and adults) don't say please and thank you.
Fed up with hearing 'pass me that', give me that', 'stand over there' etc.
If my 20m old can manage pleases and thank yous, then an adult can.
Basic manners are important.

gandalf456 · 22/11/2015 23:24

I am in the encouraging camp. This is what I did with mine and it worked . I have seen some parents force their children to say please and thank you to me very aggressively. Quite often, it doesn't come if their child is very shy so is not necessarily a manners issue in this instance and I hate it when they do that. It's almost for them, to save face and prove they're great parents.

Senpai · 22/11/2015 23:24

My 4 yr old is very shy, trick or treating was a social nightmare. He would have rather gone home crying and empty handed than have to take a sweet out of a strangers bowl AND talk to them, so a smile and a nod and a thank you from me or DS1 had to do. Last year he did go home empty handed. Thank fully people thought he was cute and shy not rude, he'll be a bit old for that next year.

Naw, I've gotten super shy 10 year olds or really tall 7-8 year old's at my door, and the parents thank me for them. You can tell the difference between the ones that are being rude and the ones who timidly reach for a single piece of candy then try to melt into the background to avoid any more social interaction.

Scaredycat3000 · 22/11/2015 23:32

Thank you, I'm a little concerned, he is improving slowly. DS1 will talk to to any one anywhere and DS2 would just like to stay at home.

Euripidesralph · 22/11/2015 23:36

Massive massive difference between saying please and thank you and bodily autonomy

Ds is absolutely expected to say please , thank you and pardon at the appropriate times, I'm a firm believer that manners will get him far in life .... However that's simply about how he interacts in society and how to handle people

However I'm also a massive proponent that his body is his, and he is never expected to hug or kiss if he chooses not to, especially if someone attempts to overrule him either directly or through passive aggression

Very different things

madein1995 · 22/11/2015 23:38

Kissing and hugging - shouldn't have to if don't want to.

Basic manners are absolutely needed. They're one of the main indicators of respect, and nothing worse than a child who doesn't say please or thanks. Even worse is the parent who doesn't insist they say it. Truth is, experiences in childhood affect later life and the values a person has, and no one likes an adult who doesn't have manners/

EnglishWeddingGuest · 22/11/2015 23:47

Manners = respect

please and thank you convey the personal acknowledgment that you are either asking someone to do something for you (please) or grateful that they have done something for you (thank you)

Neither word is subservient nor is encouraging their use equivalent to teaching a child to blindly follow orders

I find this thought line most bizarre

(Completely agree with not making anyone have body contact with anyone else they do not wish to ..... And I say this to my children re relatives etc .... But I do insist they are respectful and say "hello how are you?" etc etc)

Crunchycookie · 22/11/2015 23:52

Good manners is all about learning to be polite whether you want to or not - stupid clueless daft woman

Lovecat · 22/11/2015 23:57

How strange. There are a couple of children at the school I work at who appear to have been brought up like this. They come to the office and demand things in one word sentences, such as "Pencil!" or "Phone!" and seem quite taken aback that the receptionists, to a woman, refuse to give them what they want unless they ask properly, saying "please may I..?".

Courtesy costs nothing, it's hardly subservient to be polite. I'd like to see them go into a pub, shop or office in later life and see what reaction they'd get talking to people like that...

PiperChapstick · 23/11/2015 00:13

I always make DD say please and thank you, I put a lot of value on having good manners. However I never force her to hug or kiss anyone, I want her to learn she always has a say over her space and her body, if she doesn't wanna hug someone she shouldn't have to

AvaCrowder · 23/11/2015 00:43

I've always led by example. I believe that children absolutely copy their parents. I also feel that manners come from the idea of making others feel comfortable.

I think that my modeling has given my school manners and the reasons behind them, so it is natural.

My dh on the other hand would force them to say words with no grounds, just like a habit.

Anyway my dc do use the right words, wait for each other at the table and laugh raucously at farts.

wickedlazy · 23/11/2015 01:00

Ds is 4 and knows to say please or thank you. I know a few people who were never taught to say it as children, and struggle with it now, because it's not a habit. So they can come off as a bit rude in social situations. I've also been turned off before by gorgeous, generally nice men because they lacked basic manners. It's very off putting and you notice it more as time goes on. Dp is very polite, which I find attractive, and encourages ds to say please and thank you as much as I do.

Ds also knows that he doesn't ever have to hug anyone he doesn't want to. Or kiss. I will say "go give granny a kiss goodbye" sometimes he will, and sometimes he doesn't want to and will say no. He knows this is fine, that it's his body, his choice.

NotMeNotYouNotAnyone · 23/11/2015 08:13

I say please and thank you to children and apologise if I do or say something wrong. I expect childten to do the same.

Yes to the not forcing hugs and kisses, that's a different issue. But not teaching manners is failing your children as they'll be labelled as the badly mannered ones until they are old enough to figure it out for themselves.

Yanbu op

gandalf456 · 23/11/2015 09:27

I work in a shop and, unfortunately, it's very common. I took a women all the way round to show her the tins of biscuits she had. No acknowledgemention at all. Just moaned that they weren't where they should be

MaisieDotes · 23/11/2015 09:33

gandalf I can only imagine. I was in the hardware superstore place last week and I had my 15 month old in the trolley. I'm also 30 weeks pregnant.

A woman called me over to get some items off a higher shelf. No problem, I said. Then when I gave them to her she looked decidedly unimpressed and started making noises about finding better ones. When I mentioned that I had to attend to my DS (and my own shopping!) so couldn't really go on a hunt for what she was looking for, she harrumphed.

I told her I hoped she found what she was looking for- "Right" came the curt reply as she turned away to find some other mug

Lostcat2 · 23/11/2015 09:41

Yeuk why would you bring up your kids to be rude.

Hugs no manners yes.

They will be very unpopular teenagers. Poor kids with such a stupid clueless parent.

StUmbrageinSkelt · 23/11/2015 09:46

My DH's ex didn't want their child taught to say please or thank you. The child also didn't think acknowledging people when they said hello was necessary.

I found it bizarre. As an adult they are doing very well in life in a career which demands people skills but man they were an unpleasant child for a decade or so there.

PurpleThermalsNowItsWinter · 23/11/2015 09:53

We were at a party yesterday. I heard 'I want a party bag' and the child just grabbed it. WTF? You wait and say 'thank you' if handed one. Simple manners I enforce. Hugging and kissing, no. Their bodies, their decision.

Micah · 23/11/2015 09:54

I think the key word is "force".

I expect a please/thank you. However if a child won't/can't say it, shyness, introverted, sn, whatever the reason, I don't think it should be forced, as in the child made to stand there until they do say it. I think that's awful for the child and won't help their social skills at all.

If the child won't/can't say it, I think a please/thank you off the accompanying adult instead is fine- the child sees it should be said.

VinoTime · 23/11/2015 10:04

8 year old DD would be in trouble with me if she didn't remember her manners, not that she ever forgets. It's not that I've ever been forceful with her over remembering them, but a gentle, "What do you say, MiniVino?" when she was little has gone a long way. She is one of the most polite children you will ever come across. She engages well with people, so she will happily smile back at somebody and say good morning/afternoon/evening. She remembers please, thank you, sorry and excuse me and she'll always hold a door open for you, etc. I don't know. They sound like basic, silly things when you write them down but they go a long way I feel. We were in Smiths last week picking up some new pencil case things for her and she rushed over to help an elderly man when all the bits from inside his newspaper fell out as he was trying to put it in a bag. She didn't need any prompting, she just did it. She came back with her chest all puffed out because he gave her 50p for helping him

I would be mortified to have a child who didn't know/remember their basic manners. I see it as horribly rude. I'm one of those people who will hold something back from any child until they remember please and thank you. If you don't have manners, you don't get. Simple. I'm not rewarding any child for rudeness.

Bakeoffcake · 23/11/2015 10:13

It's a basic thing in our culture to day Please and Thank You so I always reminded mine to say it. When they were tiny though I'd just say it and hope they'd copy, I didn't get into the "say thank you or you don't get x" as that's just mean.

I was in America recently and one of the first thing I noticed was that they don't say P and TY AT ALL. It makes them sound so abrupt and rude though they weren't, it's just their culture.
I was pleased to get back to people taking a bit of time for niceties.

DixieNormas · 23/11/2015 10:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PuppyMouse · 23/11/2015 10:43

Interesting argument and not one I've come across.

I have drummed please and thank you into my DD - she's now 2 and says them 80% of the time. If she forgets I just pause and give her a "look" IYSWIM and she says it straight away.

I can see why so many kids don't say please and thank you - it has been daily hard work to help her understand and be consistent as a parent - plus if there's no role model there how will they learn?

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