AIBU over not forcing a child to say please or thank you

[ScrumpyBetty]

AIBU to think that teaching my child manners is not teaching him to blindly follow orders? I am interested in people's opinions after reading a Facebook post of an acquaintance, which basically said that she will never force her child to say please, thank you, give hugs etc if he doesn't want to because she wants her child to respect her and not to have to say please or thank you if he doesn't mean it. She equated teaching a child manners to blindly getting them to follow orders. Now I don't agree with this, but loads of people came on and supported her post, commenting that she was such an inspirational parent and that they fully agreed with her.
I am interested in what other people think.

Have I read your op wrong?

I agree with your friend. I expect my dc to say please amd thank you, but I don't think forcing them to say it (just like forcing them to say sorry) is the right way about it.
They have to learn why they're saying please and thank you, and not just because they were told to say it.

Don't get me wrong. If they don't say it when they should then I will say "what do you say?", and once they've answered I will temind them of the impotance of being polite. I won't say "say please/thank you" I want them to think for themselves, not just be a parrot.

They're different things. I will never force mine to hug or kiss anyone, their body, their choice. However I do expect basic manners, which don't always mean please and thank you...you can ask nicely/politely without those exact words.

annamarlowe and berti have explained how I teach my dc

Teaching your child to be appropriate in social situations is really important in their development and in learning how to fit into society. It's confusing for them if they don't know the 'rules'.

You can ask nicely without saying those words and it is mean to withold something because they disn't use those specific words.

IMO she is wrong about basic manners. They speak volumes and smooth the path throughout your life. I've seen a lot of young interviewees/trainees/juniors grind to a halt early in the process/their potential career because they seem to have zero appreciation of basic social niceties. Many people, including senior staff who call the shots and clients who essentially fund the business, don't find it acceptable. If you can't be bothered to say please and thank you when appropriate, there are plenty of people who will.
I've been quite strict with mine re: manners. On one occassion my son said he could not be bothered to thank the host's parents when leaving a birthday party. He got two chances, or his party bag was going in the bin on the way home. It did. He always bothered to say thank you after that. I don't see that as disrespecting him. I see it as preventing him from being the "rude kid" who doesn't get further invitations.
I do agree about no enforced kisses and hugs though, 100%. No one should have to be physically touched against their will.

I encourage my child to say please and thank you but I would never force her to hug someone. I believe that should be her choice and that it reinforces that her body is her own and sets the groundwork for learning about consent.

Manners don't need to be forced if taught from babies. My 3 year old sometimes needs a gentle reminder to say please/thank you. Hopefully as she's older it will become automatic.

Manners dont cost anything and they also show respect.

Any of my family/friends children come here and ask for something or get given something, they know full well to say please and thankyou, or they dont get it.

BBQueen the danger with that approach is that saying please and thank you doesn't form as a habit, which it should.

They don't need to 'understand' why they are saying it - it's an important social convention.

My own sibling took your approach, my DN's who are 3/4 years older than my own children never learned to say please or thank you or ask to be excused from the table or to politely wait their turn without shouting 'me! me!' The difference between the cousins is glaring and embarrassing to my parents at wider family occasions.

Your children may not 'understand' why they need to wash their hands or brush their teeth but you still teach them to do it.

When I hear "please" and "thank you" I think nice person. I am very suspicious of people that never say please or thank you.

I would add though that I encourage her to acknowledge others in other ways e.g. Handshake, fist bump, wave (she's 3)

I don't like children being forced to apologise to some other kid after they've hurt them, in lieu of more appropriate redress (such as removal from place/ removal of treats), but I do think please and thank you should be innate.

I will give a small caveat; I saw two 18-24m olds (I reckon) being told to 'Say Ta' in order to get something - I saw no evidence that they had any understanding of what it meant and they really did just 'follow orders'. Perhaps in that situation I would have said 'We say please when we ask for things' (or '...thank you when we are given things') to the child and left it at that, but certainly from age 3 onwards I would expect a child to do it when prompted, showing understanding.

I also agree hugging/kissing should not be forced; that is encroachment of physical space and should be the decision of the individual.

She'll soon learn when her child is getting told off for not saying please and thank you in school

Somehow I doubt it; more likely she'll accuse the school of all sorts in defence of her precious little snowflake. Not attending in class? Well, she must have been bored - Ignoring all the rules? Oh no, I teach her to judge each situation for herself - and so on and so on

Agree about not forcing physical contact, though ...

Agree Zippy and I have had many a word with DM and DMIL about doing the fake crying/emotional blackmail thing when either of the DDs says no to a hug. Not sure they get it - but not my problem.

The manners things is bats. Mine have usually lovely manners and that was instilled from the word go.

Do you know all those rude people you meet in life who think they are entitled and don't need basic manners, where do you think it starts? What a load of bullshit your friend talks.

I live in Italy and the please and thank you culture doesn't really exist here.

E.g. The way to say 'can I have a 100g of ham please?' At the deli directly translates as 'give me 100g of ham'.
E.g. No one says thank you if you hold a door open for them, they just walk through and blank you unless you know them.

I find these things intolerable actually, but it is a cultural construct. We are known outside of uk for our pleases and thank yous.

I think she is unreasonable because to be a successful and liked person in British society, I think please and thank you are the cultural norms.

Kissing and hugging not so much, whereas without that in Italy you'd be an outcast!

a family member thinks this. now his kids are nearly adults and they're just rude. never say please or thank you. is awful really.

I'm on the fence here- I can't read how the friend meant it.

I have seen cases of performance parenting where a small child is forced to say please or thank you. The child is made to stand in front of an adult and repeat stock phrases. It is more about the adult demonstrating how "well behaved" the child is doing as they're told and saying polite words, than it is about the please or thank you.

I have a very introverted child, who struggles if put on the spot like that. I never forced a please or thank you when she was tiny- I remember my mum doing it to me and it was almost a humiliation, I'd stand there burning with shame but finding it physically impossible to get the words out. With dd I'd say "remember to say thank you", and then say thank you myself.

Her manners are fine now.

With ds I plan to be quite relaxed in how I parent I want to be his friend and parent (shoot me). I feel I would however be doing him a dis service and failing as a parent if I didn't enforce please and thank you.Manners cost nothing and I respect people that have manners a lot more than people that don't

I won't force him to have physical contact with anyone.

She is being unreasonable.

I have a pig who is a sister.

I sometimes tell people I will give them £5 if she says "please" or "thank you" to them.

Haven't paid out yet.

No kissing at all but please and thank you always every time.

Somebody said about it not being norm in other countries and I agree .when my aunt first came over from Sweden she didn't say please or thank you as she said it wasn't used there her British friends explained to her and she is really well mannered. She said though if she used please in sweden they would think her odd.

You can teach your children both it's not one or the other.
Mine were forced to say both please and thank you and we always had good comments about their manners. It is one of our values as parents.
Another value is to not follow orders blindly, dependant on the perceived outcome.