Cinema ban on the Lord's Prayer

[Leafitout]

Surely if anyone finds this advert offensive they can choose not to watch it. I can't see the problem with showing it.

You aren't there and you don't know if someone is speaking badly about you being trans. If it never leads to violence, discrimination and you never find out is it not wrong/upsetting/offensive? You can't help yourself to extrapolations of what transphobic beliefs lead to in the extreme and then deny the same thing to someone concerned about what this type of fundamental religious belief leads to in the extreme.

Yes, I have an issue with people saying prayers for me. I request that they refrain from doing that.

Ego, while I'm not terribly bothered by people praying for me as long as they keep it to themselves and don't bother me with it, I can see an argument that says a sense of superiority and 'rightness' due to religion ('my faith is right, this person is wrong and therefore I am entitled to do x, y or z because of my moral superiority) can exist on a spectrum, and a relatively harmless 'I will pray for the person who believes prayer is a total waste of time) can be part of a thought process that includes proselytisation and a sense that their religion should trump others' given its rightness.

I have expressed this badly. Late at night with a starving newborn.

Offred and Bertrand, does anyone have the right to demand I pray for them?

Pontypines, excellent post (and you made me actually guffaw at the end!)

I think you are being dismissive of others whilst expecting the same people to take your personal beliefs very seriously.

...and I will cease to use 'frothing' when the frothing ceases (or when other terms such as 'sky fairy' or 'imaginary friend' or 'mythical being' are banned.)

Of course there are people who may be praying for me right now, what on earth is your point? Would you think it was an acceptable response for me to reply 'I'm sure there are people from MN being transphobic about you right now'? That would be a truly nasty thing to say, wouldn't it? Or is it just you consider your personal concerns to be objectively more important?

The act of saying a prayer for me IS the bad thing that has happened.

If you don't have a problem with people praying for you then you do not have a problem.

It is something I feel strongly about. You don't get to dismiss it just because it is not important to you.

Bertrand, Minnie's behaviour can hardly be called 'despicable'. This assertion, coupled with your desire to have 'frothing' banned along with a person's agency regarding who they can and cannot pray for, leads to a rather disturbing picture. You do not come across well here.

Yes, I am comparing something you feel strongly about to something I feel strongly about. I am not saying you should not feel strongly about transphobia. I am not asking you to feel strongly about what I feel strongly about. I am asking you to respect that I feel strongly about it.

I do not want people to pray for me.

Faberge, I asked you ages back for some examples of what you thought were 'frothing' in the thread to that point, because it feels more like an intentionally reductive rhetorical device rather than something grounded in the reality of the thread to the point you started using the term.

You've ignored most of my questions, but would you mind answering this one?

I thought you were leaving the discussion, Faberge. Have you now made sense of what you couldn't make sense of before? And have you checked out the facts in relation to your assertions about the statistics of babies being christened?

Faberge, it comes across as pretty cowardly, though, not being willing to back up your statements and disappearing off the thread instead. Intentionally cryptic and oblique references to issues or threads without being willing to provide any specifics leads to exactly what happened here - people coming to their own conclusions, while the poster trips off leaving the thread to descend down the rabbit hole she created.

I have limited time or respect for people who don't have the courage of their convictions or statements to explain them or discuss them, but expect them to be blindly accepted because they've been repeated.

Minnie made a mysterious statement then grinned and "popped off". The only reason for doing that is to make mischief. Which is despicable. People accuse others of "frothing" when they want to silence them- particularly on threads like this when nobody actually has. And I am not trying to remove anyone's agency- I am just trying to preserve my own. But I have to say that I take you telling me I do not come across well and present a disturbing picture as a compliment!

Bertrand's categorisation of M1nnie's behaviour was entirely accurate. She made an assertion then slid away from the thread rather than give an explanation which she knew she could not justify.

Sorry - obviously the poster I'm referring to isn't you, but rather Minnie in reference to this particular example. Rereading my post I realised it could be misinterpreted.

Someone praying for me affects me in real life.

If the transphobia had no effect on you and you were not aware of it at all it would still be wrong, it wouldn't become wrong when you found out about it.

It is the same thing. I have suffered horribly because of my family's Catholic beliefs and I do not want people to pray for me or co-opt me into their religious practices in other ways as a result. It gives me severe anxiety and panic attacks.

I do not want people to pray for me and just because I may never know that they are doesn't mean I think it is ok for them not to respect my request not to pray for me.

Now you've made us jealous, Bertrand, with the lovely compliments Faberge is giving you

And have you checked out the facts in relation to your assertions about the statistics of babies being christened

I'm more intrigued by all the non-Christians who apparently insist on church weddings to be honest. Given the number of weddings that happen in any religious venue, all those agnostics and atheists taking vows in church must mean an awful lot of people who identify as Christian are choosing civil weddings. Quite a way to treat a sacrament...