Cinema ban on the Lord's Prayer

[Leafitout]

Surely if anyone finds this advert offensive they can choose not to watch it. I can't see the problem with showing it.

And criminals? Really... Pffft....

You seem to be conflating some issues there.

"That should make them rude, not criminals."

I'm not suggesting they are put in prison for it!

I am very clear on the issues here.

I think no one has a right not to be offended in a public space. That's one of the issues.

Let's suppose you were given fair warning at the cinema (a sign "there may be religious paid for advertising before the film"). What then?

But it's nothing to do with anyone being offended. It's just against the business concerned's policy on advertising.

The word "offended" ought to be banned too. Along with "frothing"

I might remind you that it is only the CofE that is making arguments about rights being infringed and court cases.

I have only ever said how I would feel about seeing this advert, personally. That is disrespected, forced into collective worship and angry. I have not said that is how everyone should feel, I've not said another person's personal reaction to the ad is 'weird', 'frothing', or makes them a hater of any belief system... Just the reasons why I would be uncomfortable, angry and offended:

I've asked that people not pray for me, I expect that they will have sufficient respect for me to honour that, I recognise that the nature of their religion probably means they won't but I still believe they should respect me.

I have not said praying for someone against their wishes should be criminalised, though nurses who have done it in the context of their work have been appropriately punished for it as is correct IMO.

Anyone can be offended at anything they are offended at. No-one has a right to not be offended. If you are offended nothing usually happens does it?

Offence is a feeling not an action.

That is irrelevant to this whole issue other than it makes bad business sense to offend people who are paying you to provide a service or product.

If there was warning people could choose whether they go or not.

It would probably put some people off going to the cinema as said up thread, as it is a leisure activity.

Why are you opposed to refraining from praying for people who do not wish to be prayed for?

Offred because I love people, wish them well and direct this to God.

So if somebody asked you not to pray for them, you would ignore their wishes?

You can't love someone if you lack basic respect for them.

You may frame it as an act of love but it is an act of faith. Some see it as love, some as war. The way people who are different live together happily is by having respect for each other.

If you actively choose to exempt yourself from that principle you are a hypocrite if you expect respect from others yourself.

Having grown up in an (Irish) catholic family I understand that you believe you are compelled to do such things 'for good'. I understand therefore that there is zero chance you will respect anyone's wish not to be prayed for. It does not mean I will stop pointing out that it is an imposition of your faith in others which demonstrates fundamental lack of respect for them.

How can I respect your wishes when they do not allow my own freedom of thought? Because a lot of my prayers are thought, it is second nature to me. They are prayed as soon as I have thought them. Are you asking me to somehow erase you from my mind?

No I am asking you not to pray.

You can think all you like.

I am asking you not to pray.

Let's suppose you were given fair warning at the cinema (a sign "there may be religious paid for advertising before the film"). What then?

For any warning to work the cinema would have to say what religion was being advertised. It would simply be a recipe for chaos - there would be all sorts of problems with some coming ready prepared with other entertainment so they don't have to listen, people objecting to them doing so, EDL-type idiots regarding it as their duty to go to cinemas and catcall all the way through Muslim prayers, plus counter demonstrations and goodness knows what else. The more you think about it the more you can see the sense in the line taken by this cinema chain.

It is not beyond your capability as a human being to act consciously and with respect.

Other humans manage it.

When religions refuse to respect other people's rights to freedom of religion they put themselves against the free world. This is what is happening to ISIS at the moment.

Surely there is a big difference between praying for someone in the privacy of your own mind and praying over them? To me that is what this 'advert' does. I think it's a bit disingenuous calling it an advert in any case. It is a prayer, and playing it at a cinema is effectively forcing a prayer to be a part of a bunch of people's lives who have not asked for a prayer or given permission for one to be said over them.

If I was given advance warning of the film then I'd want to get up and walk out for that minute. Or maybe all the adverts just in case. If a lot of people felt that way that would be pretty disruptive for the cinema, and bad for other advertisers. Or maybe I'd feel angry enough about it to want to talk over it, providing my commentary as to why I think it's objectionable. That would be upsetting for any Christians I assume, certainly not very conducive to peace and love.

Yes, totally agree with that.

There is a massive difference in magnitude between a private prayer and this advert being shown in the cinema.

I still don't want people to say prayers for me...

In their homes, workplaces, churches or minds.

Think of me. Do not pray for me.

What about prayers which are thought, Offred?As I have said I pray throughout the day, a lot of my prayers are simply thoughts directed to God. Not all Christian prayers are said in church, knelt with our hands together and eyes closed you know. So you are asking me to change the way I think, my thoughts.

No, I am asking you not to pray for me.

You are being disingenuous as framing it as so difficult.

Ahem, Offred, how do you (as an atheist) define prayer?

I have no patience with any argument that having a religion exempts you from or makes it impossible for you to respect other people.

If that is the case I would think it was appropriate to re-examine your faith.

And how can you, Offred (as a atheist) comment on the ease or difficulty of a believer's spiritual act of worship?