Cinema ban on the Lord's Prayer

[Leafitout]

Surely if anyone finds this advert offensive they can choose not to watch it. I can't see the problem with showing it.

I've only asked that my view on this thread not be rudely dismissed as 'frothing' and 'weird' and stated that the current law promotes an effectively secularist public space already.

My view is that I do not want to have belief imposed on me. It is not what religious people are often calling for, what they want and expect is to be given a right to impose their beliefs on people.

A cinema is a private place and as such the owners are able to, within limits, determine what goes on there. That's a separate issue.

My view is that I do not want to have belief imposed on me. It is not what religious people are often calling for, what they want and expect is to be given a right to impose their beliefs on people.

The key point is the word "imposed". I am failing to see what the difference is between this and religious people asking others to respect their blasphemy rules.

A huge proportion of those who marry in church are agnostic or are straight-up non-believers. And if is still hugely important to even the irreligious to Christen their kids.

I do not know one person who has either got married in a church or had their children christened.

Offred

Your body capsium... Stay away from mine.

Where did I say I want your body? Rather presumptuous comment...

Stay away from my 'soul', stay away from my beliefs...

You are in charge of whether to give your soul over to anything, believe or not, not me. What do you think I would do? Mesmerise you?

What I will say though, is, I've as much right to go into public spaces, as any member of the public has, by law. And as much right to freedom of speech, as anyone else has, according to the law.

Can we please have a ban on the word "frothing"? People only say it to try to belittle other people's points of view. And its use reflects badly on the user.

^

This.

I also cannot see where all this stuff about atheists "hating" christianity comes from. So far as I can see the general consensus round here is to leave christians to get on with it, with certain reservations about the privileges afforded to christianity in the UK and a general view that the Archbish is being an idiot claiming that christians are being discriminated against by the cinema chain.

Capsium, where has anyone said that you don't have a right to free speech or to go into public spaces?

It's the context and the issue of consent.

No-one expects to be involved in collective worship at a cinema. That means people are not being given an opportunity to accept or reject it.

Someone coming to the door I can choose not to answer or explain to them my views.

Someone blaspheming a Christian can ask them to stop and explain their views.

It is not a situation where something is being imposed on anyone where you have an opportunity for a dialogue.

There is no opportunity for dialogue here. The advert is shown without warning in a context where you wouldn't expect to be subjected to religious beliefs and where you have no opportunity to discuss it with the people responsible.

A Christian would have an equal right to complain about the imposition of an advert promoting blasphemous atheism before Star Wars.

(Which is the point many people have made about the showing of religious or political adverts - have one and you must have them all)

Gruntled it was an aside, in reference to Offred's comments addressed to me. These comments were referencing those that I made concerning the Christian belief that Christian believers are the church, so the church goes with them, as God is in them, rather than being limited to building status. Thus denoting only specific designated places as appropriate for worship, as Offred claimed, is a moot point.

Yes, you have a right to freedom of speech and of religion. You do not have the right to impose your religious practices on other people. Often times no-one can stop you from doing that but you do not have a right to do it.

What do you think you are doing when you pray for someone? You are trying to get exert proprietorship over their 'soul' and impose your religious beliefs on them. This may be welcome or unwelcome depending on the individual you are praying over.

People are just expecting that you only do it when it is welcome.

Offred what I do when I pray does not 'impose' anything. I do not 'exert proprietorship', people are not controlled by me or my prayers. We have free will.

It's simply the same logic as ISIS tbh. Many religious people of many different kinds do not believe that IS asking for special privileges. They believe that they are naturally entitled to impose religious rule by the 'higher authority' of 'God' who is superior to any an all rules made by men.

You believe in the power of prayer. The fact that I don't doesn't entitle you to pray for me or mean it isn't an imposition.

"Offred what I do when I pray does not 'impose' anything. I do not 'exert proprietorship', people are not controlled by me or my prayers. We have free will."

But what if I do not wish to be prayed for?

Offered I repeat I do not impose anything. You cannot force faith.

No you are not going to make me religious by praying for me. It absolutely remains an imposition for you to choose to do so.

Bertrand Offred

So you want to stop me from praying? This would involve controlling my thoughts. And you complain about me imposing....

No, as I said before. I want you to be respectful towards other people in the practising of your faith by refraining from praying for people who do not wish to be prayed for.

Offred it is the same as telling me not to think of you, as I continually pray and direct my thoughts to God.

Yes. It is.

Why are you opposed to refraining from praying for people who do not wish to be prayed for?

But what if I do not wish to be prayed for?

tough I say. You can't stop people from praying for rain, sunshine, or your soul. You can say you don't like it, but you can't stop them. That should make them rude, not criminals.

No, you can't stop people praying for you.

Of course everyone is aware of that.

That doesn't make it unreasonable to expect that they don't pray for you.

So you want to stop me from praying? This would involve controlling my thoughts. And you complain about me imposing..."

No. I just want you to stop praying for me. It's quite simple.