Cinema ban on the Lord's Prayer

[Leafitout]

Surely if anyone finds this advert offensive they can choose not to watch it. I can't see the problem with showing it.

The great thing about atheism is that you don't choose to bind yourself to all these rules about your life based on the mythical wishes of a mythical being. Therefore if you want to have a hell of a good day on 25th December you can, irrespective of whether other people have chosen to make that a religious festival day. You can choose to like religious music for its intrinsic qualities without feeling that you're not allowed to like it because it's christian, muslim or whatever. You can enjoy christian paintings in just the same way as you enjoy paintings of the Roman and Greek gods, for their artistic qualities. You can even read religious writings for their literary content without worrying that you're disobeying any rules made up by men in cassocks. Freedom is great.

Or maybe, like pagans etc, they can celebrate anything they like, in any way they like and at any time they like....

And call it what they like.

Christians should have trademarked Christmas ages back if they were going to mind about secular appropriation of the term. (Under 'getting annoyed at appropriation of Christian festivals by others' it reads 'see also: irony'.)

Faberge - DP and I have been together for 30 yrs (we chose not to marry), we have two adult children, neither of whom have undergone any religious indoctrination. (We decided to let them choose as and when (or if) they wanted to). They have both decided not to.

I would like to go to the cinema and not have religious messages thrust upon me. Whatever the religion is. In the same way I get cross when people knock on my door and try to 'convert' me. If sitting in the cinema, you are there for entertainment, not to have religious views imposed upon you. None.

Gruntled, I think some posters have fallen into the theist trap of thinking that atheism is a belief system.

I am simply astonished that you all think the average atheist really does card one way or another whether it is shown.

you made claims about atheists, cinemas, collective worship, and of course not all atheists object to each of these to the same degree. Certainly, I couldn't care less about the cinema showings. But the point remains, besides my example, how do you know the average atheist wouldn't care?

I am also astonished that so-called Christians would support the ban (unless, of course, they're not confident that the God they worship is the one true God, in which case I would suggest they rethink their faith).

some christians recognize their belief is faith based, entirely devoid of evidence. Others are secularists, and among secularists you can have beliefs ranging from none to strong.

So, it's not that shocking.

I agree that the freedom is great - when my son was old enough to decide that he didn't believe in god/religion but still had a fear of the dark, I explained to him that if he didn't believe in god then there were no ghosties and ghouls either. He slept fine after that :)

I am finding this thread somewhat bewildering. I went to the cinema yesterday and I would not have found the prayer advert any more or less offensive than the adverts I saw.

Evans, how do you feel about other adverts pushed upon you? Cars, perfume, food?

In my opinion, considering the price of cinema tickets nowadays, there should be no advertising whatsoever anyway. It's almost akin to the BBC suddenly screening product advertisements, when we have to pay for a television licence.

It's not a ban, by the way. It's just that these cinema chains have a policy of not showing anything political or religious.

For the same reason Red Cross charity shops do not have Christmas display windows.

Oh, and there are plenty of Christian secularists.

Respecting other people's right to choose their own faith is great too. I'm an atheist, so are XP and XH. 2 of my DC are atheists, 1 is a strong Catholic and the other is agnostic at the moment. What they believe is up to them the only part of any belief system I won't allow is the idea that you are entitled to dictate to other people about what their beliefs should be.

People who are not considered 'good enough' Christians to get married in a church or baptise their children etc is an utterly stupid thing to me.

Other adverts are offering products for sale. You can choose whether or not you buy the product advertised. Christians believe in the power of prayer, having an advert saying a prayer is therefore an absolutely fundamentally different invasion of a person's freedom. It is not just advertising the prayer site that is the issue to me but the fact that the prayer is being imposed on the audience.

It is akin to nurses who say prayers over patients in ITU to me. Totally disrespectful of others.

Faberge - I rarely watch television adverts. But when they are on the television, I have the option to switch off or leave the room. As a cinema-goer, I am part of a captive audience. That I object to.

I haven't seen this Lord's Prayer advertisement on the television.

And I understand that this particular advertisement is not being objected to as being offensive, but if this advert is allowed, then ALL other religions will want cinema airspace too.

I didn't get married in a church, I got married on a ship & a registrar did the ceremony. Gods were not invited to my wedding. Likewise I will have a humanist funeral. Neither of my children are christened, its up to them to choose a faith if they want to.

I do wonder though, if the prayer advert was allowed how would the Christians who are protesting strongly on this thread feel when they have to sit through a Muslim prayer, or a Jewish or Hindu prayer. You can't allow the CofE to be able to have a religious advert & no other religion to do the same.....

We'll have Tom Cruise's earnest face selling to us the joys of Scientology. (a bargain at only 20% of your annual income)

All Christians recognise their beliefs are faith-based, surely. A secularist Christian would agree with this ban because....?

We'll have Tom Cruise's earnest face selling to us the joys of Scientology

Waaaahhhhhh!!!!

What's a devout atheist?

In answer to your question, Jassy, I might consider a 'devout atheist' being someone who passionately defends their (non) position of non belief, often whilst criticising a position of belief.

It does seem to get nonsensical, yes, because how can you defend a (non) position? A positive belief is usually that which is expected to be defended. However if you go to the lengths which involve critiscising a belief position, I would assert a form of opposite belief (to the belief position being criticised) is involved.

I would say, to be offended by anything, involves beliefs, in terms of what is considered appropriate to share publicly with others. Offence is not a neutral position.

You can choose whether or not you buy the product advertised. Christians believe in the power of prayer, having an advert saying a prayer is therefore an absolutely fundamentally different invasion of a person's freedom. It is not just advertising the prayer site that is the issue to me but the fact that the prayer is being imposed on the audience.

Prayer is not being imposed on the audience. I see no difference between a perfume ad and the prayer advert. Both are trying to get me to "buy" what they are selling. I can choose to not. I can also choose to leave the cinema during the ad. I can also choose not to go to the cinema. I don't see it is a bigger invasion of my personal freedom than anything else.

there should be no advertising whatsoever anyway

it's a business decision. You can choose not to participate. I also don't like ads. I therefore go to each film about 10 minutes late.

How much would producing this advert and screening it in cinemas before Star Wars cost? Surely the money would have been better spent actually helping people.

Evans, how do you feel about other adverts pushed upon you? Cars, perfume, food

Interesting point, Faberge. Do you see prayer or faith as a commodity to be sold like those other things?

I also agree with Offred's point. No one is forcing you to be a passenger in one of th cars that they're selling. If prayer is inherently powerful, why involve those who aren't interested in what the church is selling?

A secularist Christian would agree with this ban because....?

I don't know. I am guessing. I won't pretend to understand what's going on other's heads, especially the religious.

A secularist Christian would agree with this ban because...?

They recognise that it's their belief, and they do not feel their religious beliefs belong in the public sphere?

why involve those who aren't interested in what the church is selling?

to get converts of course, as should be their right.

"All Christians recognise their beliefs are faith-based, surely. A secularist Christian would agree with this ban because....?"

It's not a ban.

And a secularist Christian would agree with the decision not to show it because he or she would believe that faith is a private matter and should not intrude into the public sphere. As all secularists do, regardless of their religious viewpoint.

Do you not know what 'secularist' means?!?

Atheism is the rejection of belief in a god/gods. It is not non belief. It is not a religion.

I feel it is an infringement on me personally (and my children) to have the prayer said over me in the ad while I am at the cinema. That is how I feel about it and I don't think that is an unreasonable way for a non-Christian (atheist, Muslim etc) to feel.

I also feel the cinemas have made a decision based on business reasons and not necessarily to protect the feelings of non Christians. That is somewhat irrelevant to my own personal reasons for being affronted by the church's desire to have the film shown before Star Wars.

Churches absolutely do not have a right to convert people. It undermines the whole principle of the human right of freedom of religion.