To ask if you think secondary teachers should have achieved top grades in their subject area

[Teachersshouldbeclever]

I genuinely wonder how, if a secondary teacher was unable to achieve the top grades when they sat their subject, if they are able to teach their students the skills needed.

Or is it a case of the cleverest students actually surpassing their teachers' knowledge and expertise?

I didn't even take GCSE or A Level in the subject I teach. I have a degree in it though from an RG university.

Ouch... so many really negative sentiments on here about teaching.

"Teaching is a profession for the mediocre" definately not the case, the mediocre don't cut it in teaching.

"Teaching is poorly paid." It really isnt, once you get to a certain level. Starting out it is, for the amount of work you put it. In most places outside of London teachers are some of the best paid in their town, certainly way higher than average. A good example would be a colleague, early 30's, teaching 6 years, got a small TLR and his Threshold this year and is now on £42 k, as he pointed out when we were talking about this, of his friends outside of London only those who are in medicine or have been successful at law are earning more.

However you have to have had the sticking power to make it 6 years in, and sufficient ability to make it to HOD. Thats not for the mediocre.

if you want top graduates then the job needs to be attractive in some way, they have many other, far more attractive options. At the moment teaching falls down in every aspect you would consider when selecting a career - pay, conditions, career advancement, job satisfaction, work/life balance.

iF you check the threads about career satisfaction they are always packed with teachers. When I left teaching I earned around 50k a year, I could and have earned more elsewhere but it was not awful pay. There are issues with teaching, recruitment and retention but let's not pretend that every teacher is unhappy with every aspect of their job.

Would you encourage your children to be teachers at the moment? If the answer is no, ask yourself why. One of mine wants to go into teaching, a second is thinking about it. If you ask them why they will say because they saw that it made me very happy, it gave us great time together as a family and they want to make a difference. I am happy with that choice.

But I do agree with jelly that teaching needs to have things that make it attractive which is why it would be a mistake to mess with holidays, pensions, weekends and the ability to leave at 3:30 and work flexibly.

"Teaching is a profession for the mediocre" definately not the case, the mediocre don't cut it in teaching.

I never said it was true, I said if was an assumption.

However we all know of mediocre people who spend years coasting in teaching, if by cutting it you just mean lasting. That does not mean that the profession as a whole is mediocre but you can be mediocre and "cut it"

Would I encourage my children into teaching? Yes, for the reasons outlined by philosothy

We all know mediocre people in many professions.

There seem to be thousands in the banking industry for example.

longtimelurker
politics seems rather chock full of mediocrities with a poor grasp of maths, history, geography and science TBH

The chancellor certainly has a poor grasp of economics.

Every industry has mediocre people, including teaching, that was my point in response to the claim that mediocre people can't cut it in teaching.

Well I don't feel particularly well paid as a teacher

How much do you think you should be paid?

Teachers should be paid the same per hour as politicians.
As many teachers put in 70 hour weeks for 35 weeks a year
and politicians get stupidly long holidays and benefits
its a fair comparison IMHO

I didn't even take GCSE or A Level in the subject I teach. I have a degree in it though from an RG university

Me too. I know plenty of people who teach who are the same.

One of my children has just gone into year 7 and I have been helping him with his maths homework just today - stuff I would have said that I couldn't do if you had asked me prior to doing it as I struggled to get a C at O level all those years ago. I did it with ease and was able to explain the hows, whys and wherefores. I guess I use maths more in my daily life than I realised and/or my brain has had time to process the concepts over the years and stored them away ready for use. I wouldn't suggest I could teach maths now - far from it - but I do think that as we get older, experience fills in a lot of the gaps for us. Consequently, something we did badly in years ago isn't necessarily something we would do badly in today. Grades aren't everything, even in teaching.

I'm a teacher too (primary though).

Re. pay, if I worked full time (I don't because I like to see my children occasionally) I would still be earning less than I did as a fresh graduate more than 15 years ago in a different industry. I'm on M6, which for non-teachers out there means I have 6 years experience and is the top of the pay scale unless I want to add to my workload.

It really is not well paid in comparison to what 'top graduates' can earn in other industries for a far easier workload.

I changed career in order to be able to have a portable job (trailing spouse) and to see more of my children - ha!

Yes, teaching can be fantastic and in other countries I worked in, I have been able to see lots of my own children while still working full time, had job satisfaction etc. Here, it's a completely different matter. I believe it once was ok here too, perhaps when you were working Philoslothy - not anymore according to all teachers I know in real life.

And yes! Politicians should at least have half a clue about the areas they make policies about, some work or life experience at a minimum.

I stopped teaching very recently. I went into teaching for very similar reasons ( although secondary not primary - I have to admit that I know very few happy primary school teachers) and by and large got what I was looking for. I was never really driven by a sense of vocation though which may be why I did not have the workload issues

My workload is driven by micromanagement with ever changing criteria, pointless meetings and having to document every move I make rather than a sense of vocation.

Sorry, off track a bit OP, I just think if teachers were treated a bit better there may be more 'top graduates' wanting to be teachers. I certainly won't be recommending the profession (in this country) to any talented youngster who asks me about it.

I was going to spend the afternoon writing references for internal application to the 6th form. New idea by the Year 11 HOY, it clicked about 5 minutes in that these kids will get accepted to the 6th form anyway if they get enough GCSEs.

So, will anyone read these references? No. So what's the point? So it looks like she is doing something with post 16 progression whilst not actually doing anything.

So I've copied and pasted a nice generic reference and changed the name on each. I will be telling her tomorrow that this is a waste of time.

Yet another pointless task that a lot of folk will have taken serious time over!

Teaching is intellectually challenging in a way that no job in other sectors has been for me (and I was a 'high-achiever'). It's like doing one gigantic, 30-sided rubics cube all day whilst simultaneously singing/juggling and writing an essay. It's constant problem-solving and immensely satisfying when you get it right. The teaching side is never boring, no two minutes are the same (never mind days).

The mindless paperwork is the bit that makes it unbearable/saps the joy out of it. They should employ people to do this (or stop making us for it), so we can get on with what makes the job brilliant. I'm on an extended break from teaching just now (burned out by workload), but despite the fact I don't have to go back, I'm about to because nothing gives me the same buzz as seeing children learn (and I miss their daft stories). I'm sincerely hoping my break helps me achieve a better work/life balance or say 'no' to unnecessary stuff more when I go back.

I think about ten grand more than currently would be great actually, thus more could afford to go part time and actually have a work life balance

Teaching is intellectually challenging in a way that no job in other sectors has been for me (and I was a 'high-achiever'). It's like doing one gigantic, 30-sided rubics cube all day whilst simultaneously singing/juggling and writing an essay. It's constant problem-solving and immensely satisfying when you get it right. The teaching side is never boring, no two minutes are the same (never mind days).The mindless paperwork is the bit that makes it unbearable/saps the joy out of it. They should employ people to do this (or stop making us for it), so we can get on with what makes the job brilliant. I'm on an extended break from teaching just now (burned out by workload), but despite the fact I don't have to go back, I'm about to because nothing gives me the same buzz as seeing children learn (and I miss their daft stories). I'm sincerely hoping my break helps me achieve a better work/life balance or say 'no' to unnecessary stuff more when I go back.

I completely agree with everything you've said!