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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if you think secondary teachers should have achieved top grades in their subject area

271 replies

Teachersshouldbeclever · 19/11/2015 17:56

I genuinely wonder how, if a secondary teacher was unable to achieve the top grades when they sat their subject, if they are able to teach their students the skills needed.

Or is it a case of the cleverest students actually surpassing their teachers' knowledge and expertise?

OP posts:
OneMoreCasualty · 19/11/2015 18:23

Me too oubliette. I would not relate to students who didn't want to learn or make an effort.

rollonthesummer · 19/11/2015 18:24

Absolutely it doesn't, but surely it should at least be part of the criteria for recruitment.

Nobody has even applied for the last two vacancies at my school, let alone 'excellent graduates'-- the posts are both being filled by day to day supplies.

If my (high achieving) children want to apply to teaching, I will endeavour to put them off with every muscle in my body!!

It's only going to get worse.

OublietteBravo · 19/11/2015 18:26

I'd also be unwilling to give up my well-paid career and earn a teachers salary - I don't care how many weeks holiday they get, it isn't worth it

susannahmoodie · 19/11/2015 18:29

I have straight as at gcse and a level and a first class degree from a RG uni, and a masters degree.....but in my first few years of teaching I actually found teaching less able students very hard as I couldn't see why they couldn't 'get it' after I'd explained it a number of different ways. I think people who have had to struggle themselves might understand some of the barriers less able students face....I'm better at it now.

Wobblystraddle · 19/11/2015 18:29

I was a high achiever at school, a teacher now. Not the best but pretty good. To be totally frank, sometimes I feel like a underachiever - teaching isn't exactly a high-flying career. I love it, though.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 19/11/2015 18:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FuckinNamechange1 · 19/11/2015 18:34

You could argue that if you want people with the highest grades you need to offer them the highest wages, but more importantly treat them as though they are valued. Teaching is a thankless job. I got all a grades at gcse and a level and a 1st at uni and spent 10 years as a teacher, rated outstanding by Ofsted but have now left for a job where I am actually appreciated. Would not recommend any high achiever ( or anyone actually) to enter the profession with current pay and conditions.

pinotblush · 19/11/2015 18:34

Its a vocation and poorly paid for what they actually do.

Have no idea why they should be "top" in the subject? what is "top" anyway?

FuckinNamechange1 · 19/11/2015 18:35

Croos post MyHovercraft

FuckinNamechange1 · 19/11/2015 18:36

Cross even Smile

Narp · 19/11/2015 18:36

I think teachers should have achieved top grades in teaching

GruntledOne · 19/11/2015 18:36

The most important thing is that they know how to teach. My DS really struggled with a teacher who was a brilliant mathematician but who, for that reason, simply had no understanding of why some pupils would struggle with it. Because he'd never had any difficulty in learning it, he simply had no concept of any strategies and tricks which might help to make the subject more comprehensible for the non-mathematician.

Narp · 19/11/2015 18:37

I don't know why I've responded to this...

TheFallenMadonna · 19/11/2015 18:42

It's a big advantage to be clever as a teacher, but only when you have the necessary foundations too. It would be a bit laughable to suggest an GCSE student with an A grade was surpassing the knowledge of a teacher with a B grade GCSE, but also an A level and a degree...

JenniferYellowHat1980 · 19/11/2015 18:43

I got a B in A level English Lit. I hated sixth form, hadn't a clue where to start with revision and was taught in a very different, wishy-washy way from today. I had no idea about assessment objectives, Mark schemes or even the structure of the papers I was sitting. I think I did OK, all things considered, and my professional training, love of literature and fifteen years' experience teaching and examining render my own results pretty meaningless.

I think I would have been better off being taught science and maths by teachers with an ounce of interest in their students. I might have tried harder and got more than a C in both then. I have no idea what their own Grades were but they didn't make them good teachers.

JenniferYellowHat1980 · 19/11/2015 18:44

Excuse the random capitalisations in my post Blush

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes · 19/11/2015 18:44

I think actually being able to teach young people, or anyone tbh, is a skill, yes you need a good knowledge of your subject but if you follow a curriculum you know what to teach, the skill is in making it interesting, and accessible for all the learning styles, and abilities of the whole of you class. so NO i don't agree that you need to have been top of your class to be a teacher.

pinotblush · 19/11/2015 18:46

Someone that is usually "brilliant" at a subject has very poor communication skills due to focusing on just that. To me it smacks of what is labelled autistic.

My definition of a teacher is someone that has the skills to teach what is expected to pass an exam at the highest level.

They are two different things entirely.

winewolfhowls · 19/11/2015 18:47

I certainly agree that schools are lucky to find anyone to fill vacancies never mind top graduates.

As said above... It's only getting worse

tethersend · 19/11/2015 18:47

OP, do you believe that teachers should have top marks in their subject AND a teaching qualification?

Or would you be happy with just the former?

randomsabreuse · 19/11/2015 18:48

I'm not sure that high fliers in stuff like maths would necessarily be the best teacher other than of the top set. Stuff you just get is way harder to teach than stuff you remember having to learn! Being able to do does not automatically mean being able to teach!

TheFallenMadonna · 19/11/2015 18:49

Pinotblush, I think that generalisation is invalid in a couple of levels...

MrsCrimshaw · 19/11/2015 18:49

I'm a Secondary English teacher. I got Bs for Eng/Eng Lit at GCSE, an A in Eng Lit at A-level and a 2.1 degree in English Lang & Lit from a red brick university. I get good really good results for my students - however, there are lots of incredibly talented educationalists working in Secondary schools doing amazing things to promote learning, whether specialists or not, who didn't do that well with their own qualifications. I have also been teaching RE for the past 2 years as a non-specialist, for which I have also had really good results and actually really enjoyed discovering the topic alongside the students. In Secondary, you often end up with bits of other subjects on your timetable to fill up the hours.

In the school where I did my NQT year, they had recruited a German graduate from Oxford with a 1st. He was the worst teacher I have ever seen and the kids walked all over him. He didn't even finish the first term. Lots of people with the highest qualifications do not make it through the training.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 19/11/2015 18:52

Teachers - I think that, in many cases, someone who has had to work to understand a subject, may find it easier to teach it than someone to whom it comes easily - because they will be able to understand why people struggle with it.

For example, dh is really good at Maths - he finds it very easy, and got top marks in it, whereas I had to work really hard to achieve a B in O level maths. When ds1 was struggling to understand maths in his first year of senior school, dh could not help him - he just got really frustrated because ds1 couldn't understand something he himself found to obvious, but because I understood why ds1 was finding it hard, I was able to explain it in a way he understood.

So, as others have said, I think it is skill in teaching that is really important, allied to a good knowledge of their subject.

LegoClone · 19/11/2015 18:52

I think a secondary teacher should be able to achieve the top grade in their subject if they took the exams now! Grin I also think that this is not the case for all teachers unfortunately. Sad

I don't think that the grades a teacher achieved in their exams when they were at school, or even their class of degree, are a particularly good indication of how good a teacher they are.

I'm a science teacher - I got an A for GCSE chemistry, a C for physics and didn't take biology (showing my age - no requirement to take all 3 and no A* grades back then) and somehow managed an A for my chemistry A level too.

I feel my experience of being bright but lazy, with no idea how to learn or prepare for exams, has helped me to relate to a lot of the pupils I've taught and made me a better teacher than I might otherwise have been.

I also put a lot of effort into ensuring that my subject knowledge and understanding of biology and physics is higher than GCSE level, and having to learn the subjects as a more "mature learner" helped enormously with my understanding of how best to teach them.