to wish doctors weren't going on strike

[MissTriggs]

After 5 months of misdiagnoses, being sent to the wrong person, explaining why suggestions weren't helpful, holding my GP's hand and fighting to get to the right person I'm now booked in to have the test I need on 2nd December, the day after the strike.

If my test was on 1st December I'd be pretty upset

I then read a post on here from a junior doctor claiming s/he could make more money "as a manager at Greggs" and that tipped me over the edge.

I saw lots of posts from doctors saying they already work weekends but it turns out they get paid extra for this at present.

I think doctors have no idea what it is to work in a job where you can be sacked easily, where you don't know whether work is coming in from day to day, where your employers have no interest in getting you back to work after a career break and where you either have no pension or the value of your pension can fall from year to year and be worth nothing.
I also think they don't realise that, whilst a generation ago doctors might have been unusual in working antisocial hours, nowadays all professionals are expected to be available all the time.

I might be wrong, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

There are much, much easier ways to make money. Anyone who can get into medical school is bright enough to do something easier and better paid if they want to. One of my friends quit and went into accountancy and then consultancy and now earns many multiples of my salary.

You can't do any private practice as a junior Dr so that option is out for many years.
The only way to make more money as a junior is to do locum shifts and you won't be able to do that in a banded job as you will already be working all hours (there's usually something in the contract preventing you) or do locum jobs full time which will attract a higher rate although much of the money goes to the agency. Huge waste of NHS money on temp staff.

As a consultant it can be very lucrative for some specialties particular surgery but not for others. I don't do any private practice at all: it's against my beliefs and I don't have the time. That is true for all but one of my colleagues.

One of my colleagues requested time off for his wedding 6 months in advance but was refused it.
They would not even let him take it off unpaid unless he organised his own locum and paid for it out of his own pocket. He was not allowed to swop with anyone either because the rota is so complex. He ended up having to cancel his honeymoon.

The rota for junior doctors is fixed at my hospital as is the annual leave. No requests, you know what you're working. Is this the same everywhere?

Yes, it's fixed at all the hospitals near me.
That's what I meant really. He tried to request a long time in advance for a really important event but 'computer says no'. It's all computerised to fit the hours requirements and cannot be altered in fear of a breach.
Then try having 2 people in a household with a fixed rota. You can never go on holiday together. You'd be lucky if you are off the same weekend.

When my DH was a junior Dr, my company sent me abroad for a project at relatively short notice. Thankfully due to a combination of fab neighbours and friends and lots of money thrown at nursery & babysitters we managed to sort out childcare. DH tried but could not get out of his rota commitments. Same happened when I was taken into hospital with a bleed when I was having DS, it was a completely different hospital to DHs , thankfully the staff on my ward were flexible and let him come and see me out of visiting hours as otherwise he wouldn't have been able to see me. This pregnancy I'm booked in at his hospital.
Rota commitments have screwed up a good few life moments.

Bacon not in the U.S. But from a place with a very similar model.

I paid $700ish pcm for health insurance as a healthy 20 something that doesn't smoke and exercises regularly (however was self employed so would have been a couple hundred a month cheaper with a company)

GP co-pay was $30 (total bill about 130) ob-gyn was no co-pay, paediatrician was $40 co-pay.

Apparently giving birth at the hospital was around $15,000 and c-section $30,000. I had to pay for some of my blood work before insurance co would reimburse and one round of tests was $2000.

However, that being said I received fantastic care and had the same Dr throughout pregnancy and amazing midwives (English) during the birth... I have heard very few say they had a traumatic birth even if they had an emergency c-section, whereas since I moved to the UK everyone seems to have a tale of how bad their birth was.
I like the NHS but to me just the fact that it is free at point of use for everyone means that people go to see GPs when they have a cold (btw I know this is not the majority but I know people who do this). I would be willing to pay something at the GP (I know we pay taxes already) to keep it free for those who really can't afford.

Most senior Drs have a deep seated fear of ever incurring a GMC complaint. Even if totally unjustified it is guilty until proven innocent. A malicious complaint can destroy your whole career very easily.

Actually, a malicious comment (or even a very rude one) can be made with impunity providing there's no evidence of it. As I know to my cost...

Have you ever tried to find childcare that starts at 0630 for a 7am start?!?”
Not in general practice.

For women, medicine is a far better career than law or business because the NHS allows them to work part time and wants them back after they've had babies
This is perfectly true for GPs and is thought to be one of the reasons there aren't enough of them working enough hours (that and the high wage (eventually) and the golden pension that makes working to 65 financially stupid).

“But lots of GPs work part time don't they?” again, officially maybe, the reality is many are working till 10/11pm at home catching up on paperwork, researching patient conditions and meds and treatments…
Not the ones I know! There may be GPs who do this BUT there are also plenty who leave work at 6pm and that is it for the day. In fact one friend told me that the job combined with motherhood because there wasn't the preparation involved that a teacher would have! (She does work very hard at work though).

I don't want to get further into this because I'm not a doctor and don't know it from the inside. Clearly there are a lot of things that doctors feel very strongly about. But it's worth remembering that GPs are the doctors that most doctors see - and they do seem to have a rather sweet deal in some ways. Coupled with the amount of publicity they are generating about the negative elements of the job, the public could be forgiven for getting confused.

We do see them living in lovely houses, driving expensive cars, retiring early on a great pension and not working weekends or evenings. And in comparison to many jobs that involve a lot of heavy lifting, being shouted at by the boss, or something more obviously stressful than prescribing tablets (like managing 40 screaming children, for instance), it doesn't appear like it's very difficult to do (I realise this isn't true). It must be frustrating when this is all the public picks up on, but it is what they witness. Perhaps the low morale within general practice at the moment is being picked up on by patients as a lack of motivation?

Anyway, I'm not qualified to comment further. I just think it would be helpful if GPs who are trying to explain the difficulties of the job could bear with patients when they don't understand - perhaps by acknowledging first that yes, many jobs are very hard and not all of them have the rewards. Bearing in mind that many of these patients will be coping with the very real stress of trying to make ends meet. When affording healthy food and shelter is a burden, anyone financially comfortable is to be envied.

Have you ever tried to find childcare that starts at 0630 for a 7am start?!?”
This was meant to refer to evenings and weekends. Though GPs in my area don't start at 7am and plenty of professions require a much earlier start!

There are better ways to make money my brother is doing that I know but my point is the JDC will be damaging to less attractive areas in medicine

I've asked people in my area they are not happy but I've also asked if trey would leave for greener pastures abroad and most say no to be honest

Most just say that they will have to just get through training and that's it though admittedly most I speak to have 2 years left plus fellowship

We are still striking though even though it is those just entering who are going to be affected the most

I think it's just Ophth then where I am

they love their patients and what they do but some of these people make me laugh...

I know several GP's in different parts of the country that do exactly that regularly which is why i wrote that.

Also gp's are not JD

'something more obviously stressful than prescribing tablets' that's not stressful? How about considering that diagnosing and prescribing treatment for a patient can often be a matter of life or death? I can't think of much more stressful than that!

I am a GP and I am so swamped with work I have to get into work at 6.30 on my extended hours days and 7 am all other days in order to get through the the mountain of paperwork and call backs. We certainly don't finish by six either. Sadly.

Most of the GPs I know are desperate to get out.

JDC is damaging it will affect patients as well as doctors due to worsening work conditions,

It will affect the type of people who do medicine possibly attracting those from elite backgrounds mostly. Interestingly this is what govt tried to combat opening the new medical schools it did about 15 years ago one of which I attended.

Apparently those were to increase the number of people training to be GPs and I guess many of my colleagues are doing this but clearly this did not solve the shortage of doctors crisis we have.

It will affect areas in medicine which are less attractive.

It will help to further dismantle NHS.

Must get back to revision now

psuedo I didn't suggest you go private and get over it, although whoever did had a point

I just hope that JDs stand their ground. There are trusts sending out emails informing staff that services will continue as normal on the day if the strike. They are expecting JD to remain in the buildings while striking incase they are needed! If that happens and there are negative outcomes for patients it's the trusts that are to blame, not JDs

There are a huge number of retired doctors out there who have their 30 years at tax payer expense having holidays nad sitting around whilst the rest of us work until we die to support them who can be brought out of retirement.

Copy and paste fail, comment was in relation to post by howto

Please just leave it regarding me now. You known I am ill, please stop rubbing salt in the wound.

Your clearly well enough to comment negatively on a thread about JDs striking and accuse them of being lazy not sure how you thought that would go?

That's a misquote.

Not saying that prescribing medication isn't stressful, not at all. It just doesn't look stressful when you watch a GP doing it

bacon I am in the US. New Jersey to be precise where healthcare costs are very high compared with the rest of the country.

For us we get 100% reimbursement for all costs apart from prescribed vitamins and care related to DHs pituitary gland tumor. Copay for doctor appointments and MRIs are $50 and the medicine is about $120 a year.

My sister has opted for the top tier coverage so pays $1000 a month for her family and spends about $2-3k in copays per year. That's for a family with 2DC, one with constant ear infections. Her monthly copay is on a sliding scale with her employer paying 100% for those on less than $75k. My sister and her DH are making about $250k a year between them, hence the highest tariffs.

The care here is very good. I've given the example from this week but I could give many more. When I didn't have insurance it was $120 to see the doctor and I paid $4 at Walmart for the prescription. There are also a lot of clinics available in my area that serve low income non insured people. The doctors and nurses have their education paid for in return for working in these clinics.

I've seen first hand how people behave differently when they have a copay of even $10 to see their GP. I really think the NHS should have a copay for those who pay prescription charges and do away with free prescriptions for OAPs. It should be income based.

Also the issue I see with the NHS is the huge amount of paperwork. I've never seen so many forms and so much bloody paper. It is a huge problem and needs to be sorted. That's why this is a mgmt problem.

Just want to add this is what I have seen a JUNIOR DOCTOR do while I've been working too. GPs are irrelevant btw to the strike. It doesn't involve them.
They've come with me to ct scan so I wasn't alone with a fitting patient, helped perform cpr, tell me which drugs to give and when, how much, tell a patient/their families some terrible news (I worked in oncology), check blood results, prescribe blood products, consent for theatre, ward round, liaise with consultant/other teams, chase up results, attend nurses meeting, the list goes on and on. It isn't a case of, I'm a doctor I presxribe medicines, there's a lot more to it, now imagine doing all those things seventy plus hours a week, while tired, stressed and often near tears. Is it safe/fair? Even if they were on massive amounts of money (which they really aren't trust me!) you do not want to be encouraging that sort of work, it's plain dangerous.